Louis, ek het dit self gister ondervind.
Ek het twee maal geskiet, staande oor 'n stapel hooi-bale, terwyl ek nie gemaklik was nie. Ghong gemis op 100m en 140m. Ek het soos jy sê "gereset" en die oorblywende 3 ghongs tot op 280m geklap. So leer mens voor jy gaan jag!!!!
Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
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Gawie(13mm)
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Last edited by Gawie(13mm) on Sun May 25, 2014 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dont make expensive noise! Make the first shot count!
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PWV
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Manne die jare het al aangestap en baie van ons weet en ken dit waaroor Louis en Gawie nou praat, maar dit gebeur maar nog steeds. Een of ander tyd sluip die oorgerusheid in en kom daar 'n foutjie wat jou dwing om te "reset".
Moes ook Saterdag saam met Gawie en ander die wind op Riebeek trotseer. Voel heel trots dat ek die ghong 2 uit 5 skote op 520 meter kon kry.
Moes ook Saterdag saam met Gawie en ander die wind op Riebeek trotseer. Voel heel trots dat ek die ghong 2 uit 5 skote op 520 meter kon kry.
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Louis Kriel
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Oom Pieter daai is darem vrek ver, dis hoekom ek die long range kurus wil doen want my wiele kom af hier by 350 m!
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PWV
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Ek het toevallig op hierdie stukkie afgekom wat ek baie interessant gevind het.
Om die waarheid te sê het ek probeer om my geweer bietjie stywer vas te hou, soos Froggy hier noem. Dit het nogal gewerk. Doen nou maar die moeite en lees die Brits!!
A Navy veteran, master-level trap-shooter, and full-time aerospace assembly manager in real life, Froggy is a bit of a living legend in West Coast “Tactical” circles. Why? Because this guy has an uncanny ability to shoot insanely small groups with just a bipod, and sand-sack. And he does it with a heavy-recoiling .308 or 6.5-284 and no wind flags. Sick bugholes I’m telling you–five shots in one hole are the norm. Yep, I can bear witness. I’ve seen it done–two lanes over from me, in conditions of shifting mirage and a flukey crosswind, he drilled a group that measured out in the high ‘teens for five shots. With a Harris bipod, mind you, not a $780 Farley CoAxial front rest.
I’ve never seen anybody else, anywhere, that can consistently shoot this well off a bipod with a hard hold. (Check out that target. Yep that’s five bipod shots of .308. And he has a hundred more targets just like it). How does he do it? Read on ….
Elements of Accuracy
We asked Froggy to share the techniques he uses to achieve maximum accuracy. Here are his marksmanship secrets–from breath control to bipod set-up. This section covers shooting methodology. To learn about Froggy’s reloading techniques, click here:
Froggy on Reloading >
Q: You’ve mastered the “hard-hold” shooting style. How do you grip and steady the stock?
I use a classic wrap-around grip on the stock, similar to that of most profesional tactical shooters. The rifle is pulled hard back into my shoulder and the tip of the pad of my right index finger on the lower part of the trigger.
90% of my focus after I’m dialed in is in the trigger pull. The other 10% is in the cheek weld and the crosshair to target relationship.
Again trigger pull will kill you if the correct technique is not employed. The trigger must be squeezed gently straight back; any twisting, pushing or moving side to side will put you out of business. I practice in the dark by dry firing repeatedly. Most of my feel training is done in a dark room, no distractions, my sensitivity and muscle memory are greatly enhanced.
Q: Do you use a classic breathing system, or just wait for the scope to get steady?
I guess because I’ve been shooting for so long that my focus is not so much on my breathing is it is on my trigger pull. I know that my focus is so intense that my breathing is slowed considerably. My heart rate is pretty much non-existent. After many years of zoning in on targets my body has subconsciously adapted, I feel as though the rifle is an extension of my mind, everything comes together subconsciously.
Q: What’s your procedure for dialing out parallax?
I look through my scope and do a preliminary focus to ensure that my target eye relief is correct. I then move my head ever so slightly around the eye-piece. If the cross hairs are stationary, then I know parallax is minimal or non-existent.
Q: Mirage–do you wait for it to subside, or just watch the rhythm and shoot through it?
Mirage is a story in itself. I can only advise this: do not shoot on a boil. I like to wait for the mirage to move slightly left or right.
Q: How is your cheek weld and position on the stock when prone?
Next to trigger pull, a consistant cheek weld is the most important thing for me. I practice by closing my eyes, place my cheek on the stock, then open my eyes. If I have a perfect sight picture, then I know my gun fits. I practice this relentlessly.
You must get this relationship as close as possible, adjusting the comb, adjusting length of pull, adjusting cant of the butt pad etc., until the relationship works. Your head must not be cocked over to one side–the alignment must be as close to naturally looking strait forward as possible. Consistant cheek weld must be memorized until it is second nature. The feel must always be there, burned into memory. Close your eyes and concentrate on the position, memorize it when you know you’re there.
The minute it doesn’t feel right you must adjust immediately, you will know when it is right when you see your shot placement consistency tightens up into smaller and smaller groups. How do you know when it’s right? The scope is clear and parallax-free, the cross hairs are not moving around, and you are comfortable, with no neck-aches or muscle strains.
Q: How long does the barrel need to cool between shots to hold this kind of accuracy (.2 moa)?
My Accuracy International AE 308 will usually bughole up to 5 rounds before I loose my edge; the gun is capable of holding those groups much longer than I am. I try not to shoot more than 10 rounds in succession.
Q: You’re a pretty strong guy. How important is upper body strength to “hard-hold” shooting?
I don’t think raw strength plays any part of shooting. General fitness is much more important. Muscle memory and focus are key. I think that at this stage of my shooting career I shoot subconsciously. I feel the more you think about shooting the harder it is.
Q: Do you sometimes use the free-recoil method? Can it ever work with a bipod?
Free recoil will not produce the desired result with a .308. I tried that more than a couple of times. No dice. My technique works for me. But I won’t argue with the way Tony Boyer shoots a 6PPC.
And don’t even think of shooting free recoil off a bipod. It just doesn’t work because you don’t want those legs bouncing backwards out of control.
When shooting with a bipod it is essential that the bipod be adjusted properly for elevation and cant. The bipod must be of good quality. I like Harris swivel bipods with notched legs. When the bipod is set up properly, and if you push slightly forward with the rifle to firm up the ‘pod’s legs, excellent results can be realized with lots of practice.
Q: What is best advice to newbies looking to improve their accuracy?
The most accuracy that you can get out of a .308 (or any centerfire rifle for that matter) will always be by handloading your own ammunition. You can tune the load to your gun and realize its full potential.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/tag/froggy/
Groetnis
Om die waarheid te sê het ek probeer om my geweer bietjie stywer vas te hou, soos Froggy hier noem. Dit het nogal gewerk. Doen nou maar die moeite en lees die Brits!!
A Navy veteran, master-level trap-shooter, and full-time aerospace assembly manager in real life, Froggy is a bit of a living legend in West Coast “Tactical” circles. Why? Because this guy has an uncanny ability to shoot insanely small groups with just a bipod, and sand-sack. And he does it with a heavy-recoiling .308 or 6.5-284 and no wind flags. Sick bugholes I’m telling you–five shots in one hole are the norm. Yep, I can bear witness. I’ve seen it done–two lanes over from me, in conditions of shifting mirage and a flukey crosswind, he drilled a group that measured out in the high ‘teens for five shots. With a Harris bipod, mind you, not a $780 Farley CoAxial front rest.
I’ve never seen anybody else, anywhere, that can consistently shoot this well off a bipod with a hard hold. (Check out that target. Yep that’s five bipod shots of .308. And he has a hundred more targets just like it). How does he do it? Read on ….
Elements of Accuracy
We asked Froggy to share the techniques he uses to achieve maximum accuracy. Here are his marksmanship secrets–from breath control to bipod set-up. This section covers shooting methodology. To learn about Froggy’s reloading techniques, click here:
Froggy on Reloading >
Q: You’ve mastered the “hard-hold” shooting style. How do you grip and steady the stock?
I use a classic wrap-around grip on the stock, similar to that of most profesional tactical shooters. The rifle is pulled hard back into my shoulder and the tip of the pad of my right index finger on the lower part of the trigger.
90% of my focus after I’m dialed in is in the trigger pull. The other 10% is in the cheek weld and the crosshair to target relationship.
Again trigger pull will kill you if the correct technique is not employed. The trigger must be squeezed gently straight back; any twisting, pushing or moving side to side will put you out of business. I practice in the dark by dry firing repeatedly. Most of my feel training is done in a dark room, no distractions, my sensitivity and muscle memory are greatly enhanced.
Q: Do you use a classic breathing system, or just wait for the scope to get steady?
I guess because I’ve been shooting for so long that my focus is not so much on my breathing is it is on my trigger pull. I know that my focus is so intense that my breathing is slowed considerably. My heart rate is pretty much non-existent. After many years of zoning in on targets my body has subconsciously adapted, I feel as though the rifle is an extension of my mind, everything comes together subconsciously.
Q: What’s your procedure for dialing out parallax?
I look through my scope and do a preliminary focus to ensure that my target eye relief is correct. I then move my head ever so slightly around the eye-piece. If the cross hairs are stationary, then I know parallax is minimal or non-existent.
Q: Mirage–do you wait for it to subside, or just watch the rhythm and shoot through it?
Mirage is a story in itself. I can only advise this: do not shoot on a boil. I like to wait for the mirage to move slightly left or right.
Q: How is your cheek weld and position on the stock when prone?
Next to trigger pull, a consistant cheek weld is the most important thing for me. I practice by closing my eyes, place my cheek on the stock, then open my eyes. If I have a perfect sight picture, then I know my gun fits. I practice this relentlessly.
You must get this relationship as close as possible, adjusting the comb, adjusting length of pull, adjusting cant of the butt pad etc., until the relationship works. Your head must not be cocked over to one side–the alignment must be as close to naturally looking strait forward as possible. Consistant cheek weld must be memorized until it is second nature. The feel must always be there, burned into memory. Close your eyes and concentrate on the position, memorize it when you know you’re there.
The minute it doesn’t feel right you must adjust immediately, you will know when it is right when you see your shot placement consistency tightens up into smaller and smaller groups. How do you know when it’s right? The scope is clear and parallax-free, the cross hairs are not moving around, and you are comfortable, with no neck-aches or muscle strains.
Q: How long does the barrel need to cool between shots to hold this kind of accuracy (.2 moa)?
My Accuracy International AE 308 will usually bughole up to 5 rounds before I loose my edge; the gun is capable of holding those groups much longer than I am. I try not to shoot more than 10 rounds in succession.
Q: You’re a pretty strong guy. How important is upper body strength to “hard-hold” shooting?
I don’t think raw strength plays any part of shooting. General fitness is much more important. Muscle memory and focus are key. I think that at this stage of my shooting career I shoot subconsciously. I feel the more you think about shooting the harder it is.
Q: Do you sometimes use the free-recoil method? Can it ever work with a bipod?
Free recoil will not produce the desired result with a .308. I tried that more than a couple of times. No dice. My technique works for me. But I won’t argue with the way Tony Boyer shoots a 6PPC.
And don’t even think of shooting free recoil off a bipod. It just doesn’t work because you don’t want those legs bouncing backwards out of control.
When shooting with a bipod it is essential that the bipod be adjusted properly for elevation and cant. The bipod must be of good quality. I like Harris swivel bipods with notched legs. When the bipod is set up properly, and if you push slightly forward with the rifle to firm up the ‘pod’s legs, excellent results can be realized with lots of practice.
Q: What is best advice to newbies looking to improve their accuracy?
The most accuracy that you can get out of a .308 (or any centerfire rifle for that matter) will always be by handloading your own ammunition. You can tune the load to your gun and realize its full potential.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/tag/froggy/
Groetnis
Last edited by PWV on Mon May 26, 2014 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gawie(13mm)
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Your head must not be cocked over to one side–the alignment must be as close to naturally looking strait forward as possible. Consistant cheek weld must be memorized until it is second nature. The feel must always be there, burned into memory. Close your eyes and concentrate on the position, memorize it when you know you’re there.
Oom Pieter, ek vind hierdie stukkie nogal baie interresant.
Voor ek met pasmaak kolwe geskiet het kon ek nie met oormowwe skiet nie. Hul was altyd in die pad. Nadat ek "Tod Snorre" se video gekyk het, het ek besef hoekom. My wangstuk was te laag en ek het my kop gekantel om die parralaks uit te skakel. Daarmee saam het die oormowwe teen die wangstuk gedruk.
Ek beskou dus die feit dat die oormowwe teen die wangstuk druk as 'n goeie aanduiding dat jou geweer nie reg "opgestel" is nie.
Oom Pieter, ek vind hierdie stukkie nogal baie interresant.
Voor ek met pasmaak kolwe geskiet het kon ek nie met oormowwe skiet nie. Hul was altyd in die pad. Nadat ek "Tod Snorre" se video gekyk het, het ek besef hoekom. My wangstuk was te laag en ek het my kop gekantel om die parralaks uit te skakel. Daarmee saam het die oormowwe teen die wangstuk gedruk.
Ek beskou dus die feit dat die oormowwe teen die wangstuk druk as 'n goeie aanduiding dat jou geweer nie reg "opgestel" is nie.
Dont make expensive noise! Make the first shot count!
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Louis Kriel
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1980
- Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:01 pm
Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Sjoe dankie julle hierdie is die beste draad vir my in n lang ruk!
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redroman
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- Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 11:26 am
Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Goeie topic - goeie tips.
Aliwal North
.308 Musgrave
.22 Brno
.22 Unique
.38 Taurus
9mm Parabellum
.308 Musgrave
.22 Brno
.22 Unique
.38 Taurus
9mm Parabellum
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jjmare
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- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:31 pm
Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Die beste enige afstand raad wat ek ooit gekry het was " don't make the shot happen, let the shot happen" 
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Gawie(13mm)
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Baie waar stelling, maar dit gebeur net met baie oefening en vertroue in jou wapen-stelsel.jjmare wrote:Die beste enige afstand raad wat ek ooit gekry het was " don't make the shot happen, let the shot happen"
Let op ek sê "wapen-stelsel", want dit sluit alles mbt. jou geweer in.
Groetnis.
Dont make expensive noise! Make the first shot count!
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jjmare
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Die sg "integrated Act of Shooting" moet in jou onderbewussyn gebeur - forseer jouself daartoe deur op die wind te konsentreer voor jy skiet. Die oomlik as jy bv daaraan dink hoe om die sneller te druk begin die ander aksies degeneer. Akkuraatheid gaan oor "concentricity en consistency"
The Integrated Act of Shooting
a. Preparation
b. Firing Postition
c. Natural Point of Aim (NPA)
d. Breathing
e. Trigger Control
f. Aiming
g. Follow Through
i. Rhythm/Rest
The Integrated Act of Shooting
a. Preparation
b. Firing Postition
c. Natural Point of Aim (NPA)
d. Breathing
e. Trigger Control
f. Aiming
g. Follow Through
i. Rhythm/Rest
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Pvdw
- Hero Member
- Posts: 5134
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 pm
Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Manne ek geniet hierdie draad
Vir eers het ek net 1 ding wat ek heeltyd vir my selfoet sê is "Hou jou bledie oë oop as die skoot loop." Slegte gewoonte van kleins af van skiet sonder oorbeskerming.
Vir eers het ek net 1 ding wat ek heeltyd vir my selfoet sê is "Hou jou bledie oë oop as die skoot loop." Slegte gewoonte van kleins af van skiet sonder oorbeskerming.
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Gawie(13mm)
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
As ons net klein tyd al knaldempers gehad het, sou ons baie minder slegte gewoontes en maniere aan geleer het. 
Dont make expensive noise! Make the first shot count!
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LRLaubscher
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Gawie(13mm) wrote:Dankie maat.Riebeeker wrote:Gawie, ek hoor die jy het goed gevaar op Riebeek Kasteel vandag - geluk.
Nico het egter my gat geskop tot in volgende week, met 'n vol-tal.
Die wind was maar rof en het almal geroer. Dit was 'n lekker ghong skiet met afstande wat gewissel het tussen 100m en 330m. Sonder die wind sou die helfte van die manne seker vol geskiet het.
Groetnis.
Gawie kom julle vanjaar weer.
Hierdie keer is dit jou beurt vir daai voltal my maat!
-Winchester Model 52 .22LR
-7mm/300WM Long Range
-260 Remington Ackley Sporting/Hunting
-300 Win Mag LR
-Barretta A300 semi auto (wanted)
-7mm/300WM Long Range
-260 Remington Ackley Sporting/Hunting
-300 Win Mag LR
-Barretta A300 semi auto (wanted)
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Gawie(13mm)
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Re: Moets en moenies voor die skoot loop.
Wat is die datum Pella?
Ek gee nie om hoeveelste ek kom nie. Ek soek net weer van daai rooiwyn wat ons gewen het.
Ek gee nie om hoeveelste ek kom nie. Ek soek net weer van daai rooiwyn wat ons gewen het.
Dont make expensive noise! Make the first shot count!
