Interessante leesstof oor 'n ou vraag.

[Gawie(13mm)]

Eugene, ek wil net graag 'n regstelling maak. Op 72 kan Oom PWV nie meer bokke bekruip nie maat. Hy skiet hul op 400m van die bakkie af.

[PWV]

Eugene, ek wil net graag 'n regstelling maak. Op 72 kan Oom PWV nie meer bokke bekruip nie maat. Hy skiet hul op 400m van die bakkie af.

73

[Suikermuis]

Goeiedag almal

Ek wil nie nou hijack nie, maar gun my vir n oomblik die geleentheid om my hoed vir Oom PWV te lig. Dis nie almal wat dit nog op daardie ouderdom kan doen nie!

Dankie vir n baie interessante onderwerp.

Groete

[Gawie(13mm)]

Jammer Oom. Op 43 is my ou geheue nie meer so waffers nie.

Terug by die onderwerp.

Dimitri se bydraes laat my altyd selfondersoek doen. Hierdie keer moet ek my gewig by Eugene, Ludwig en Gromit ingooi. My verste skoot op 'n springbok is maar 350m agter die blad met my 243. Vir baie manne is dit nie te ver agter die heilige lyn nie, maar dit is waarmee ek gemaklik is. Sal ek verder gaan? Beslis, maar nie met die Howa soos hy nou opgestel is nie.

650m op 'n 300 x 300 bennox plaat is nie meer veel van 'n uitdaging nie en ek spog nie. Dit kos baie tyd op die baan en tussen 100 en 200 skote 'n maand. Oom PWV skiet tot twee maal 'n week met sy twee roere en 'n 200mm ghong op 500m is die maksimum omrede dit die maks. afstand Is wat die baan toelaat.

Verskiet en langafstand jag is soos 'n dwelm. Soos reeds gemeld is daar baie faktore wat jou sukses kan belemmer maar om jou skietplatform en jou eie tekortkominge te erken en daaraan aandag te gee is vir my tog die teken van 'n ware jagter.

Drie jaar terug sou nie ek of Oom PW eens kon droom om dit elke Saterdag na Saterdag reg te kry nie. Ons het ons toerusting opgradeer en baie geoefen, maar bowenal ons self omring met mens wat dieselfde passie as ons het. Ons leer nog elke keer wat ons op die baan kom by mekaar en is nie skaam om raad te gee of te aanvaar nie.

Ek moet egter ook die manne op Jaracal bedank vir hul onbaatsugtige bydraes tot my en Oom Pieter se vorming in die verband.

[Baasvark]

Ek moet bieg dat ek een van die manne was wat getwyfel het oor die langafstand/verskiet jag idee...

Maar ek het bietjie gaan oplees daaroor en baie youtube videos gekyk en ek het nou geen probleem daarmee nie.

Self skiet ek nie so ver nie - gemaklik tot so 300m se kant. Maar ek het geen probleem met die manne wat dit KAN doen nie!

[413-Jeffry]

met een uitsondering van 14 skote op n takbok wat my gunsteling kloof nou die naam Oorlogskloof gegee het.

Le soos ek lag.

Uitstekende naam!!!

[Charles.308]

Ek het al gesien dat ouens skiet mooi groepeering op skietbaan 200m 300m 500m , maar sit daardie ou in die jagveld dan is dit totaal ñ anderstorie, moet my nie vekeerd verstaan daar is ouens van dit kan doen, ek sê maar net in daai veld het meer addrienelien ,klomp bokke wat rondhardloop, bokke wat nie wil stil staan nie, maar op die skietbaan het jy meer tyd,minder druk, soos die eerste stuk sê eties is ñ jagter wat weet wat sy potensiaal is en op watter afstand hy gemaklik voel om daai sneller te trek
Net my 2c
Charles

[PWV]

Ek het al gesien dat ouens skiet mooi groepeering op skietbaan 200m 300m 500m , maar sit daardie ou in die jagveld dan is dit totaal ñ anderstorie, moet my nie vekeerd verstaan daar is ouens van dit kan doen, ek sê maar net in daai veld het meer addrienelien ,klomp bokke wat rondhardloop, bokke wat nie wil stil staan nie, maar op die skietbaan het jy meer tyd,minder druk, soos die eerste stuk sê eties is ñ jagter wat weet wat sy potensiaal is en op watter afstand hy gemaklik voel om daai sneller te trek
Net my 2c
Charles

Ek het die teenoorgestelde ook al gesien!

[OU VOORSLAG]

Wat sal julle se is die afstand waarvan mens kan begin praat as LRH?
My mening oor die hele LRH is dat die skut moet weet wat sy beperking is en daarby hou. Ek ken iemand wat gereeld bokke op 'bo menslike" afstande skiet, en een van die eerste goed wat ek by hom geleer het is, voor jy die sneller druk moet jy seker wees jy het als in jou vermoe gedoen om dit n one shot kill te maak. Dis maar my siening. En ek gaan ook die jaar as ek n hele paar papier bokke en ysterplate op die afstand geskiet het, en die kondisies speel die dag saam n soringbok op 400m+ skiet. Dis maar my siening oor dit, mag dalk heel verkeerd wees.

[Frikkie Coetzee]

met een uitsondering van 14 skote op n takbok wat my gunsteling kloof nou die naam Oorlogskloof gegee het.

Le soos ek lag.

Uitstekende naam!!!

Dit het regtig gebeur. Daar is twee manne hier op die forum wat dit aanskou het.

[Dimitri]

Hi Ludwig

Thanks for your post.

Yes, we have always seen many things regarding hunting in a very similar light. Even on this topic, I don't think we are worlds apart. It is far easier to argue with someone who lacks knowledge about a topic or someone who is CLEARLY unethical in their actions in the field but I know you well enough to know you are neither of those. Our difference of opinion probably revolve more around semantics than fundamental philosophy.

Farmers need to make a living and they need to cull their herds. There are many ways this can be done and I think we all agree that what is most important is that the person doing the killing is skilled enough to use his chosen weapon and that the weapon/calibre is appropriate for the species that will be killed and the distance at which it will be killed so as to reliably and consistently effect a clean, one-shot kill.

As someone who comes from a bow hunting background, as you yourself as well, walking and stalking an animal with a bow to get within 35-40y for a shot, takes tremendous hunting and stalking skills and knowledge. As someone who has experience of this, I can safely say that the amount of hunting skill to take shots at animals further than 100m with a rifle, is minimal in relation.

Agree. Generally speaking, I believe that the further away from your target the less less knowledge, hunting and stalking skills required.

Yet, whether we be hunting with the "voorsit", "hide", "bakkie" or "long range" methods, we still call it hunting even though the pure tracking, pursuing en stalking skills required for these are basically non existent. Why only put long range hunting in it's own little box here and call it "not truly hunting" when all those other methods basically falls under the same criteria?

I certainly have never put long range shooting in it's own box. I have always thought of all of those methods as different to fair chase walk and stalk for exactly the reasons you indicated above.

Are we only going to say that someone who stalks an animal up to 50y is truly hunting en the rest is "shooting/culling" as in your words? You as hunter decide how you want to hunt and how much of a hunting/shooting/culling challenge you want to make it.

Richard Mann says:

Some say they do not want to snipe their animal, they want to hunt it. I understand this opinion, but sniping, by definition, is hitting an unaware target from a hidden position. That pretty much sums up most all types of hunting, regardless the distance to the target.

No, you cannot have a fixed distance as the cut-off point for what may be seen as hunting and what may be seen as shooting/culling. For example, the skill required to get within 150m of a kalahari/karoo springbuck or a grey rhebuck may be infinitely more than that required to get within 80m of a warthog. Yes, regardless of the distance, we strive to hit an unaware target from a hidden position. However, I think we agree that all else being equal the further the distance at which the animal is shot, the less hunting skill is involved? (

even though the pure tracking, pursuing en stalking skills required for these are basically non existent

).

I agree that you decide how you want to go about it and how much of a hunting/shooting/culling challenge you want to make it.

Hunting is a simple description. A predator (human/animal) sets out to kill it's prey, using what methods he has available to him, to make a quick kill, for what purpose he wishes. How we box this terminology into separate categories is subjective. It is not for one person to say another's method does not meet his own criteria and is thus inferior. Hunting is not a sport. It is a lifestyle and as with all other facets in life, lifestyle choices come in a lot of flavours and no person can judge another on his convictions.

The word "hunting" is in itself part of the problem. I highlight 2 points regarding this:

1. It conjures up strong emotions on both sides of the spectrum - those who are against it and those who are passionate about it. We have seen the emotion that it elicits in the media and on just about every Forum including this one. Too often, discussions unravel and debates degenerate when the emotions kick in.

2. Hunting is not that simple in description or definition. The word has evolved to mean something different to various groups of people.

Most dictionaries define "hunting" more or less as: "Pursue to kill a wild animal for food or sport". The definition of pursue is "to follow or chase" something. So by the dictionary definition of hunting, some methods will be excluded.

Wikipedia defines it as:

"... the practice of killing or trapping any animal, or pursuing it with the intent of doing so."

I'm not sure about you but I think that there are many people who do not consider setting snares or traps as "hunting". For them, they are separate activities with totally different approaches and should not be lumped together.

The point I am making is that what seems to be a simple term is actually defined differently by many.

It is my own choice to be a fair-chase walk and stalk hunter. I therefore define hunting quite narrowly. Everyone chooses what methods they want to employ when they kill. And they define what it means to them to be a hunter in their own way. Yes, we have the right to choose according to the flavour we like but we should not necessarily be oblivious to the fact that the ingredients, method and motivation are also different.

[Baasvark]

It is always good to debate different points. It affords those of us (who may not be as informed) the opportunity to view a topic from both perspectives.

Dimitri I gather from previous posts that you are a walk & stalk bow hunter. If so, I applaud you! The level of skill required to stalk within 30/40m of an animal far exceeds the stalking skill required to down an animal at 300 - 400m! (or even further)

Now I am by no means a long range hunter - I do not currently possess the skills. Yet it is something that has intrigued me the last few months and is definately something I would aspire to.

Why? Well I believe in fair chase. We all have our own definitions regarding that and we can debate the point ad nauseum.

But I have also been to farms where the chances of stalking to within 300m are slim at the best of times! Usually a combination of poor cover and wild game. This means that you are either forced to take the shot or go home empty handed. Thus I have decided to hone my skills so that, should the need arise, I am fully able to take a shot at 300 - 400m without compromising my hunting ethics. i.e. I must be capable and practiced for those distances!

Whether you spend hours honing your stalking skills, or hours honing your long distance shooting skills - it all boils down to the same thing - putting meat on the table. It is just the route taken that differs.

My hunting doesn't start when I arrive on the game farm. It starts on the 1st of Jan when I start preparing myself for the next hunting season. And I continue practicing throughout the season

Thank you for your well versed insights. It has been a pleasure reading them!

[Eugene]

Tydens die vorige "warm" argument het ek hierdie ook genoem, maar miskien het dit verlore gegaan tussen al die persoonlike gevegte.

Ek is ook 'n ywerige varswater visserman en daar is baie meer as een tipe visvang, byvoorbeeld: kunsaashengel, vlieghengel, papgooi, spesiehengel (net soos papgooi, net duurder...), strand & rots, diepsee, ensovoorts.....

Vir my is dit by jag dieselfde. Loop en bekruip sal vir my altyd die suiwerste vorm van jag wees en 'n gedeelte van jag wat ek die meeste geniet. Maar daar is ook ander vorme van jag: voorsit jag, bakkiejag, boogjag en lang afstand jag. Net so min as wat mens voorsitjag met loop & bekruip kan vergelyk, kan jy lang afstand jag daarmee vergelyk. DIT IS NIE DIESELFDE DING NIE!

Hou bietjie ingedagte dat mense wat passievol is oor lang afstand skiet en langafstand jag, meer as dubbeld die tyd en moeite spandeer aan hulle passie, as jou gemiddelde jagter. Daarom is dit 'n klap in ons gesigte as cowboys se youtube videos in ons gesigte gegooi word. Ek is seker ek kan 10 gevalle kry waar w&s "jagters" ook verkeerd opgetree het vir elke 1 onsmaakvolle LA video. Daar gaan ongelukkig altyd vrot appels orals wees....

[OupaZA]

Eugene,

Wat is jou suiwerste visvang tegniek?

Moet seker vlieg hengel wees!

HEHE

[Baasvark]

Tydens die vorige "warm" argument het ek hierdie ook genoem, maar miskien het dit verlore gegaan tussen al die persoonlike gevegte.

Ek is ook 'n ywerige varswater visserman en daar is baie meer as een tipe visvang, byvoorbeeld: kunsaashengel, vlieghengel, papgooi, spesiehengel (net soos papgooi, net duurder...), strand & rots, diepsee, ensovoorts.....

Vir my is dit by jag dieselfde. Loop en bekruip sal vir my altyd die suiwerste vorm van jag wees en 'n gedeelte van jag wat ek die meeste geniet. Maar daar is ook ander vorme van jag: voorsit jag, bakkiejag, boogjag en lang afstand jag. Net so min as wat mens voorsitjag met loop & bekruip kan vergelyk, kan jy lang afstand jag daarmee vergelyk. DIT IS NIE DIESELFDE DING NIE!

Hou bietjie ingedagte dat mense wat passievol is oor lang afstand skiet en langafstand jag, meer as dubbeld die tyd en moeite spandeer aan hulle passie, as jou gemiddelde jagter. Daarom is dit 'n klap in ons gesigte as cowboys se youtube videos in ons gesigte gegooi word. Ek is seker ek kan 10 gevalle kry waar w&s "jagters" ook verkeerd opgetree het vir elke 1 onsmaakvolle LA video. Daar gaan ongelukkig altyd vrot appels orals wees....

Eugene dit is so! Ek sien ook buk en bekruip as die mees suiwerste vorm van jag! Maar dit is maar net een vorm.