Nuwe voorgestelde wetgewing

[Koos Barnard]

Ek vra nou hier ook om verskoning aan Robbie. Sien my ander post. My integriteit is ook bevraagteken deur die verklaring van CHASA omdat die artikel in "my" tydskrif verskyn het. Ek was lekker moerig toe daar aan my gevra is of die feite korrek is in die artikel en of ons dit nagegaan het. 'n Groot organisasie soos CHASA se persverklaring het my laat glo dat hulle die korrekte inligting het. Soos Robbie hier aangedui het, was hulle inligting ook nie korrek nie. Dus my apologie aan Robbie oor my ander post. Jammer maat.
Mooi loop

[ROBBIE1]

Koos glad nie kwaad vir jou nie pella, dis hoekom ek dit op skrif van Dries gekry het, sodat dit nou eenmaal duidelik kan word, en jy ook nie in die middel staan nie!

Wat my die m@&r in maak is dat ons jagters verenigings wat ons lede geld eet, nie hulle werk doen nie, in afrikaans gese!!

As ek nie die artikel geskryf het nie, het hulle seker nou nog nie daarvan geweet nie.........

Sorry manne, ek se weer jammer as ek kras was of is, ek het dit met goeie intensies geplaas, en hoop werklik dat dit die jagter, waarvan ek deel is en wat my brood en botter is, op die ou end tot voordeel sal strek.

[Stephen Palos]

With all due respect, I think Robbie has really taken me on here without justification! Having re-read most of what appears here, including our own release and my referral to the conversation I had with him, I see NO place where I "shoot him as the messenger" so to speak. Yes, I specifically refer to his article as that was indeed the source of our first knowledge of these proposed limits and nowhere do I say he has mislead anyone.

Our output or stance is a strategic/legal one. Simply that what the department is doing seemed senseless. That the later draft is acceptable (although we DO realise one is published as draft regulations and the other as a draft scheme) so we surmise that is the only one intended for implementation. Further that (as Robbie told me telephonically and I SPECIFICALLY state in my post that "I CANNOT disagree with him") if they intend for BOTH to be implemented, CHASA will do whatever it can to oppose the limit on own use hunters. That's it, so where he takes offense is beyond me, and he has also by private message demanded a public apology here from me???

That said though, I think I now have some right to rant. Robbie states “Ek wil egt hier op die forum, die manne van die organisasies soos Chasa vra om werklik wakker te skrik en op hoogte te kom met wat aangaan in HULLE bedryf”. Perhaps he knows little of CHASA, but we are driven by the desire to look after THE FREEDOM TO HUNT for recreational hunters. In other words, we are volunteers giving up our time to look after OUR COLLECTIVE hunting rights. MY business has NOTHING to do with hunting, so it’s not MY industry. He is in fact the one who is making the MONEY out of it. He says “die jagter, waarvan ek deel is en wat my brood en botter is”. The past two whole days I spent AWAY FROM MY BUSINESS AND FAMILY fighting gun & hunting issues for him while he was buttering HIS bread out of THE GAME INDUSTRY, and he wants to take me on here???

Whatever Koos is so offended by eludes me totally? Nowhere have I questioned his integrity and in fact I make no mention of him whatsoever. Moreover “his” magazine has the standard disclaimer; “opinions expressed by contributors are not necessarily those of SA Hunter” and on occasions where CHASA has put to the 50% owner of the magazine (SA Hunters) that something in the magazine is offensive to us or patently incorrect, they have defended themselves on this point. I don’t think he’s barking up the wrong tree, but rather a totally non-existent tree…
I’m going to repeat in more simple terms what I have said before:

• Yes we found out about the limit due to the hoo-hah that erupted when Robbie’s article in SA Hunter made it known (THANK YOU Robbie & Koos for being informative) We had NOT been applying ourselves to it as we should of due to a reassurance from WRSA previously that it would IN NO WAY affect own use hunters (our bad)

• We looked at the two draft outputs and concluded that it makes sense that the one currently on their site and which has NO limit is acceptable/preferable. We stated that it “seems” to us this is the one they intend implementing. This assumption is reasonable and we may rely on it legally if necessary.

• We realise that this may not be how it in fact pans out so we reassure everyone that we are now on it, and if the limit is implemented we WILL do whatever we can to block it.

Nuff said! I am awaiting “new” info based on facts that emerged in the meetings I mention earlier which may give total clarity, and hopefully a satisfactory outcome. We will inform as soon as this comes to hand.

[Carl]

Thanks Stephen.

Manne ons laat die ding nou weer ontaard in 'n binne geveg tussen die mense wat werklik omgee vir die saak van jag. Ek weet SAJWBV is ook bewus van die probleme, maar net omdat hulle nie op die forum is of post, beteken nie hulle doen niks daar omtrent nie.
Stephen is nou weer hier soos Willem van Safari. Julle kap hom of die organisasie waarvoor hy passievol werk- mahala.

Die probleem lê by die Regering wat 2 dokumente uit het wat mekaar weerspreek. Dit is nie by die organisasies wat jag probeer beskerm nie.

[Eugene]

Thanks Stephen.

Manne ons laat die ding nou weer ontaard in 'n binne geveg tussen die mense wat werklik omgee vir die saak van jag. Ek weet SAJWBV is ook bewus van die probleme, maar net omdat hulle nie op die forum is of post, beteken nie hulle doen niks daar omtrent nie.
Stephen is nou weer hier soos Willem van Safari. Julle kap hom of die organisasie waarvoor hy passievol werk- mahala.

Die probleem lê by die Regering wat 2 dokumente uit het wat mekaar weerspreek. Dit is nie by die organisasies wat jag probeer beskerm nie.

Dankie Carl, my gevoel presies.

Dis duidelik dat daar 2 dokumente op die tafel was wat mekaar ietwat weerspreek. Niemand weet tans watter dokument in die Staatskoerant gepubliseer gaan word nie. Robbie het ons baie gehelp deur hierdie voorgestelde wetgewing/wysigings onder ons aandag te bring en daarvoor is ek baie dankbaar!

Voordat ons nou weer mekaar se kele uitruk en mekaar begin slegsê, kom ons hou die staatskoerant dop en as die weergawe wat Robbie onder oë gehad het, wel die voorgestelde een is, dan gooi ons ons kragte saam en beveg die ding, omdat dit 'n invloed op ALMAL van ons het.

Dankie weereens Robbie, vir jou bekendmaking hiervan en dankie Stephen vir CHASA se betrokkenheid hierin.

[Wouter Roets]

Hallo Manne

Ek wil eerstens van my sowel as van Jaracal se kant af baie dankie se vir ieder en elk se bydraes op hierdie sowel as soveel ander aspekte wat ons passie raak. Of hierdie bydraes is van individue of organisasies wat ons verteenwoordig is die feit dat dit ons as jagters se behoeftes ter harte geneem word. Werklik dankie aan almal wat hulle kosbare tyd opoffer vir hierdie doel want dit word opreg waardeer.

Tweedens wil ek graag die volgende aspek opbring. Heinrich(Jaracal) hier op die forum het n klein rukkie terug n skrywe geplaas nadat die bestuur vergader het oor die welstand van Jaracal. Hierin was die kernpunt dat ons as lede hier met respek teenoor mekaar sowel as organisasies moet optree. Nou die meeste mense is al deeglik bewus dat n klomp persone wat intergraal betrokke is by die skiet/jag bedryf wat hier op Jaracal betrokke was dit verkies het om hulle deelname hier te staak vanwee aanvalle gerig op hulle as persoon of teen die instansie wat hulle verteenwoordig. Hierdie is vir ons n kwelpunt van Jaracal se kant af en dit is verseker nie ten bate van die geheel nie.

Ons vra weereens dat ons asb hier op Jaracal sal optree teenoor andere soos wat ons graag teenoor opgetree wil word. Kom ons almal gee die voordeel van die twyfel aan die ander persoon alvorens ons n skrywe plaas. Net soos ons handeling om n bosvelfvuurtjie tussen vriende sal wees. Dit is n realiteit dat daar menings verskile of ongelukkighede gaan voortspruit veral op n gebied waar daar so baie passie betrokke is, maar kom ons doen hierdie met die nodige respek teenoor mekaar.

Groetnis
Wouter

[Hein22]

Wel, ten minste is almal nou deeglik bewus van die ding (dankie Robbie) en nou is dit tyd vir die groot kanonne om hulle "muscles te flex" en dit te stop.

[ROBBIE1]

Manne ek stap nou hiermee van die onderwerp af.

As ek enige nuus het sal ek julle op hoogte hou, dit is vir my net so n passie saak as vir almal van julle, en ek sal verseker nie iets weerhou wat ek met julle kon deel nie.

Laastens wil ek net noem dat ek in my pm aan Stephen, hom versoek om nou weer n persverklaring uit te reik, waarin die korrekte inligting deurgegee word. Eks nie gepla om n verskoning te kry nie Stephen, spaar jou gratis tyd en gebruik dit eerder om hierdie saak te dryf.

Ek dink almal het nou gesien dat my inligting so jonk is as 23 Julie 2014, so geen verouderde inligting is deurgegee nie, en niemand is onnodig die harnas in gejaag nie, so ek dink die waarheid het geseefier.

Shalom.

[Stephen Palos]

Hi All
As promised, feedback on whatever transpires as it happens. This was a mail exchange today which is self explanatory.

Mr Johan du Preez - Department of Agriculture – Veterinary Science (Meat Hygiene)

Dear Johan

Thank you for the time spent on the phone yesterday in conversation regarding the various draft documents and outputs relating to proposed Game Meat Regulations and a Game Meat Scheme. I would like to ensure that my understanding of what we discussed is technically correct before relating it further to our concerned member base.

Firstly though, I would like to place on record that we (CHASA) are an umbrella body representing 22 different hunting & shooting related associations which are operating provincially or nationally across the whole of South Africa. We speak for more than 22 000 local hunters in this regard. As discussed, we are a very important stakeholder in anything that pertains to hunting including of course, regulations in that regard which the Dept. of Agriculture may be contemplating. I would thus appreciate you or the relevant office bearers ensuring we are recorded on the department’s contact list in this regard.

To the matter at hand, may I ask that you confirm by return that there currently exists (in draft form) both proposed regulations as well as a proposed scheme relating to game meat. I have a version of the regulations which I have also attached to this mail. I see no date nor an invitation for comment on this document and from its “properties” have concluded that it is quite an old version. May I ask that you confirm whether this is the latest working document, and if not, to please send me the latest? The scheme I am aware of is the one still available on the department website.

In particular you informed me that due to time elapsed as well as the variances between the two concepts, that it is the department’s intention to revert back to restarting at the very least some of the discussion & stakeholder participation processes regarding both the regulations and the scheme, which will afford all proper stakeholders a fresh opportunity to engage with the department on these matters? This is critical to us as we had previously been informed from within industry that NO part of the scheme or regulations would affect “own use” hunters in any way whatsoever, so we were not represented at any of the past processes that may have occurred.

It is particularly important for such affected stakeholders such as us to be involved because it is our opinion that any legislation or regulation which affects citizens has the greatest chance of success, particularly in terms of voluntary compliance, when those who are being regulated are part of the process of formulating said rules. We, as organised hunting representatives, always prefer to engage government as working partners in such things so that we can play our role in educating the members and encouraging such compliance, but to do so we must ourselves be comfortable with both the procedural as well as technical aspects (reasoning) of such law.

Kind Regards
STEPHEN PALOS

Dear Stephen Palos,

Please refer to our conversation yesterday.

CHASA was in fact invited to the consultative meeting at the Onderstepoort Lapa on 15 September 2013. A cursory look at the mailing list shows the name of Mr. Rory O Moore at Chasa@telkomsa.net as well as some other persons e.g. Pat Acutt, Matt Relihan and Pierre van Wyk of the ABO. The actual attendance list on the day of the meeting does not seem to reveal members of Chasa that I could recognize from our mailing list. This is not a problem as we are always willing to share information and, CHASA remains on our mailing list.

As I explained yesterday, the planned game scheme, which you have a copy of, has been put on hold by the state Legal Advisors in favour of the game regulations.
The draft regulations, a copy of which you have, dates back to 2006 and needs to be updated and consulted before promulgation by the Minister.
When ready the updated draft regulations will be published for public comments before promulgation.

Discussions are currently ongoing between veterinary authorities in the Provinces and DAFF and also with the Game Ranching Industry (WRSA).
The object is to provide an interim guideline on harvesting game animals so that the game meat may be sold to the public.
As the Draft Game Regulations are currently being upgraded and consulted, some pivotal issues need to be clarified which will also be relevant to the guideline.
These matters were dealt with by experts from the provinces and DAFF at a three day legislation meeting last week in Pretoria.
Results of this meeting will be tabled at the National Veterinary Public Health Advisory Committee early in August.

We hope to produce the guideline in the near future to provide direction in the interim while the regulations go the legal route of promulgation.

At this stage it would not help much to provide you with the draft regulations which are under discussion but the Meat Safety Act is attached for your information in the mean time.

Kind regards

Johan du Preez

Control VPH Officer
Directorate: VPH
Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries

[Werner]

Ek het nou net die eerste bladsy gelees so vergewe my as ek iets se wat reeds bespreek is. Maar dit lyk wel of die regering meer belasting soek en ook meer geleentgede om swart bemagtiging af te vorseer. Hulle hou aan kyk waar hulle uit die Boere se sakke kan vat en uit deel. En mens wonder maar net hoe lank dit gaan vat voor al daai slaghuise "Partners" moet he.

[Triple2]

Hierdie ontvang vanaf WRSA

STATEMENT BY WILDLIFE RANCHING SOUTH AFRICA (WRSA)
21 August 2014

Status of Game Meat Scheme following a discussion at HAWASA meeting held on 22 July 2014

WRSA, as the legally appointed administrator for the draft Game Meat scheme, that was intended to practically guide the production of game meat onto the local market, and which was derailed after 9 years of negotiations with the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, wishes to make the following statement:
• WRSA was compelled to take responsibility for game meat produced for the local market following the blatant nonperformance and lack of appreciation of the importance of game meat by DAFF. This is even more tragic against the background of the growing concern of food security in South Africa and the current need for us to import meat.

• In a short but urgent period a practical and cost effective guide was developed by WRSA`s appointed consultants to assist game ranchers to produce safe and good quality game meat.

• Although the Standard was developed specifically for WRSA it is compliant with the well-known International Standards of ISO 22000 and HACCP principles and the Veterinary Procedural Notices currently used by the SA export market. This is the only way to bridge the draft National requirements but also an effective way to tailor-made guidelines to be achieved.

• The Standard is a practical and cost effective guide to promote, guide and regulate game meat produced for the local market with the intention to improve the current uncontrolled production of game meat

• The difference between the Draft Game Regulations and the WRSA Standard is that the Regulations are impractical and costly, not based on scientific values and moreover based on the formal red meat abattoir scenario

• The restriction on own consumption was only promulgated in the Red Meat Regulations under the Meat Safety Act 40 of 2000 and was excluded from the Game Meat Scheme as well as from the Draft Game Meat Regulations. The application is therefore questionable

• The Game Meat Scheme negotiations were an very expensive exercise in futility for WRSA and a legal cost recovery action is in the planning

• The intention of DAFF to, in the next few weeks, publish for public comments and/or promulgate the Draft Game Meat Regulations will be met with no tolerance and stern resistance by WRSA unless we are adequately consulted and involved to our satisfaction in the drafting thereof.

• WRSA urgently requests all hunting associations to support WRSA in promoting the WRSA Game Meat Standard to ensure and promote our excellent, health enhancing, organic and natural bona fide product.


Groete
D

[Johan Nel]

Is daar iewers 'n afskrif van die 'WRSA Game Meat Standard' beskikbaar?

[Triple2]

WRSA se Daft Standaard vir Wilds vleis vir die SA mark
Groete
D

[ROBBIE1]

Manne net so ter inligting, die ding het weer lewe gekry...........

Daar word more weer insette gelewer, rakende die inspeksie proses. Dit handel meestal oor wanneer die vleis herverkoop gaan word. Daar is ook n deel wat oor die biltong jagter handel, maar is die voorstel dat hierdie vleis in geheel vrygestel word van inspeksie, en nie in n koeltrailer vervoer hoef te word nie. Die probleem gaan egter kom waar dit by n slaghuis ingehandig word vir bewerking, en dis n kopseer wat nou aangespreek word. Indien hulle dit aanvaar dat die potjagter se vleis nie aan inspeksie onderwerp word nie, gaan ek en al die ander slaghuise dit nie saam met ander vleis wat vir herverkoop gemerk is, mag berg en bewerk nie.

Hier is ek darm so paar tree voor hulle. Klaar 2 produksie lyne, 4 aparte koelkamer/containers, aparte masjiene ens. Dit wil vir my lyk of dit dalk die rigting gaan wees wat ingeslaan word.

Wat ons as besighede betref is daar egter meer vrae as antwoorde tans, en lyk dit of hier nog n paar groot gevegte gaan voorle.

Hou maar duimvas manne. Hiers nie rede om te kommer nie, ek noem dit maar net aan julle dat dit besig is om te gebeur.

[Carl]

Wat ons as besighede betref is daar egter meer vrae as antwoorde tans, en lyk dit of hier nog n paar groot gevegte gaan voorle.

Dit is vir my verblydend om te sien ons Regering maak dit makliker om besigheid te doen

Ek ry nou die dag deur die Johannesburg stad. 'n stoot 'n staal winkel trollie met beeskoppe in. Oppad na 'n ope lug slaghuis by die taxi staanplek. Daar staan 'n man en kap dat jy die byl hoog deur die lug kan sien. Nou hoe pas hierdie by die voorgestelde wetgewing???

[Philip_R]

Wat ons as besighede betref is daar egter meer vrae as antwoorde tans, en lyk dit of hier nog n paar groot gevegte gaan voorle.

Dit is vir my verblydend om te sien ons Regering maak dit makliker om besigheid te doen

Ek ry nou die dag deur die Johannesburg stad. 'n stoot 'n staal winkel trollie met beeskoppe in. Oppad na 'n ope lug slaghuis by die taxi staanplek. Daar staan 'n man en kap dat jy die byl hoog deur die lug kan sien. Nou hoe pas hierdie by die voorgestelde wetgewing???

Dis nie wild vleis nie so hulle gee seker nie om nie....

Ek was laasweek Donderdag in die middestad net suid van die M2, daar is n man wat gedroogte eekhorings verkoop, vel en al....

[ROBBIE1]

Carl dit pas glad nie, dis Afrika!!!

Maar laat ek met my wit vel nou nie my wilds handel lisensie hernu nie, dans hulle op my drumpel en sluit sommer my deur vir my toe!!!

Dis weereens Afrika.......

[Johan7]

Wel, dis soos daai padda in die water op die stoof waarvan jy die vlam stadig aandraai en aandraai...
Begin klein, eers net 'n titseltjie van die jagter se bokke ontneem, dan al groter en groter - dit terwyl die staat miljoene uit die jagbedryf maak en daar goeie werkskepping is. Nou is die wins van die jagter minder, more moet hy werkers afbetaal. Aan die ander kant is dit nog 'n metode van die regering om wapens van die publiek in te oes - moenie hulle iets gee om na te skiet nie! Dis my 2c.

[1596]

Greetings Gentlemen,

Returning to SA soon, been working at environmental issues in ASIA. Glad to be going home! SA rocks!

I note that there are numerous post in Afrikaans and my Afrikaans is good though a bit rusty. Ek sal probeer of die TAAL goed te spreek tydens my terugkeer na SA

In the mean time can someone out there in the "veld" please enlighten me where I can find the "NEW" regulations in the transport or culling, butchering on game. English edition please.

Thanks fellow hunters.

----------------
Aim good. kill once!