Flyer as n loop warm word

Post Reply
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

Ek lees nou n ding op n ander forum waar n ou reken hy het sy kettie se loop laat "cryogenic fozen to -300 degrees. This consolidated the molecules in the barrel" ...en het blykbaar daardie verdomde flyer issues stop gesit as hy n 5 skoot string skiet

Kan dit werklik moontlik wees ?

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
User avatar
Capt. Yoda
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 13526
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:35 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Capt. Yoda »

Los jou roer in deepfreeze en kyk. Een van die goed wat die ouens wat cryogenics doen oor praat is dat dit stress uit die staal uit haal so as dit werk soos hulle se sal dit help vir daai fyers as die fabrieks loop warm word en begin beweeg
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
User avatar
tripodmvr
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 21608
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by tripodmvr »

Its talking about the metal when its warm vs cool. When cool, the barrel is sometimes under tension from the manufacturing process that is used to ensure the bore is perfectly straight. Barrels will sometimes slightly alter their shape as they warm up, which will show a cold bore shot in a different place than a warm shot. Thus, for long range shooting, you have to account for this shift in point of aim vs point of impact. You can have your optic set up for a cold bore shot, or a warm bore shot, but they wont be the same zero. Many shooters take thos into consideration, and many quality barrel makers do everything they can to ensure the cold shot is the same as the warm shot. The barrel temporarily shifting its shape a tiny bit when it warms up is what memory is talking about. It's about the steel “remembering” its shape from before it was a barrel and attempting to return to that shape as it gets warmer.
.22 Krico, Howa 223 Varminter, 243 AI Musgrave RSA, Ruger RPR 243, P14 - 7 x 64, BSA 303 Sporter, 375 H&H Musgrave, 30-06 Ruger No. 1A, Khan O/U 12br, Norinco O/U 12br
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

Cappie, die gee my nou n slim plan om nuwe speelgoed vir my vrou weg te steek .....die ou praat van -300 grade en my deepfreeze maak ongelukkig nie heeltemal so koud nie, maar laat my wel dink aan die huismof se houding as daar gepraat word van n nuwe kettie.

Die stukkie wat oom Driepoot by gesit het, het ek al op n kol raak gelees en klink of dit net tydelike verandering veroorsaak.
Dit wil klink of die ou beweer dat die -300° n permanente opposing is (en klink Cappie het dit ook al gehoor), om die staal se memory te reset...maar ek's nie n metallurg nie.

Om n loop oormaatig 'warm' te skiet is nou nie heeltemal op my "to do" lys nie, maar glo baie manne, met veral standaart profiel lope, sukkel met daardie nare flyer

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk


338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
JF123
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:52 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by JF123 »

(Klomp nonsens wat ek kwyt geraak het todat iemand my reggehelp het)

Van wikipedia
"Although quenching steel causes the austenite to transform into martensite, all of the austenite usually does not transform. Some austenite crystals will remain unchanged even after quenching below the martensite finish (Mf) temperature. Further transformation of the austenite into martensite can be induced by slowly cooling the metal to extremely low temperatures. Cold treating generally consists of cooling the steel to around -115˚F (-81˚C), but does not eliminate all of the austenite. Cryogenic treating usually consists of cooling to much lower temperatures, often in the range of -315˚F (-192˚C), to transform most of the austenite into martensite."

Wat bogenoemde met lope te doen het, ken ek nie sê nie.

Bietjie ligte leesstof
https://ctpcryogenics.com/cryogenics/wh ... essing-do/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9303003010
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening
https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/512
Last edited by JF123 on Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

JF123 wrote:Met verharding deur die staal te verhit en dan in olie of water te doop, verander die kristalstruktuur van die staal nie heeltemal nie. Dit veroorsaak dan stress. Meeste van die stres kan verlig word deur die staal te verhit to so 220?, Nie al die stres kan so verlig word nie want die verhardings proses is nie heeltemal klaar nie. Sovêr ek verstaan help die verkoeling om die verhardings proses klaar te maak en dan sodoende word al die stresse verwyder.

Van wikipedia
"Although quenching steel causes the austenite to transform into martensite, all of the austenite usually does not transform. Some austenite crystals will remain unchanged even after quenching below the martensite finish (Mf) temperature. Further transformation of the austenite into martensite can be induced by slowly cooling the metal to extremely low temperatures. Cold treating generally consists of cooling the steel to around -115˚F (-81˚C), but does not eliminate all of the austenite. Cryogenic treating usually consists of cooling to much lower temperatures, often in the range of -315˚F (-192˚C), to transform most of the austenite into martensite."

Bietjie ligte leesstof
https://ctpcryogenics.com/cryogenics/wh ... essing-do/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9303003010
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening
https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/512
Ligte leesstof seg jyImage.....my kop is te plat daarvoor en was verlore na die 2de paragraaf van die eerste artikel... nou het n ou dan dalk meer vrae, soos:
- hoekom doen alle loop vervaardigers dit dan nie as n 'reel' nie
- kan dit dan nie ook help met loop leeftyd nie....ens.

As dit dan nouwel n lekker oplossing is (sonder nadele natuurlik) dan is dit dalk n goue besigheids geleentjeid....



Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
User avatar
tripodmvr
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 21608
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by tripodmvr »

Wat kos die koudbehandeling van 'n loop? Indien jy 'n dik beursie het en 'n pasmaakgeweer vir vêr skiet bou, dan sal dit sin maak. Vir jag kan dit nikseggend wees omdat min skote geskiet word.
.22 Krico, Howa 223 Varminter, 243 AI Musgrave RSA, Ruger RPR 243, P14 - 7 x 64, BSA 303 Sporter, 375 H&H Musgrave, 30-06 Ruger No. 1A, Khan O/U 12br, Norinco O/U 12br
Supacow
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2111
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Supacow »

Dit wil se Jagermeister wat uit die freezer kom verg n 5 skoot groep
Stel 2 clicks links dan flinch jy hom reguit
6x51 Europese Magnum
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

Supacow wrote:Dit wil se Jagermeister wat uit die freezer kom verg n 5 skoot groep
ImageImageImage... nogal gedink dit is n voorvereiste om die Jagermeistet in te werk, voor die 5 skoot groep ja.

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
User avatar
LoopSoosStroop
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:31 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by LoopSoosStroop »

5 stoot groep dalk, niemand van julle gaan 5 skote inkry nie
Pieter van Deventer
Blok Engineering
User avatar
Capt. Yoda
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 13526
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:35 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Capt. Yoda »

jdpretorius wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:05 pm
JF123 wrote:Met verharding deur die staal te verhit en dan in olie of water te doop, verander die kristalstruktuur van die staal nie heeltemal nie. Dit veroorsaak dan stress. Meeste van die stres kan verlig word deur die staal te verhit to so 220?, Nie al die stres kan so verlig word nie want die verhardings proses is nie heeltemal klaar nie. Sovêr ek verstaan help die verkoeling om die verhardings proses klaar te maak en dan sodoende word al die stresse verwyder.

Van wikipedia
"Although quenching steel causes the austenite to transform into martensite, all of the austenite usually does not transform. Some austenite crystals will remain unchanged even after quenching below the martensite finish (Mf) temperature. Further transformation of the austenite into martensite can be induced by slowly cooling the metal to extremely low temperatures. Cold treating generally consists of cooling the steel to around -115˚F (-81˚C), but does not eliminate all of the austenite. Cryogenic treating usually consists of cooling to much lower temperatures, often in the range of -315˚F (-192˚C), to transform most of the austenite into martensite."

Bietjie ligte leesstof
https://ctpcryogenics.com/cryogenics/wh ... essing-do/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9303003010
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening
https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/512
Ligte leesstof seg jyImage.....my kop is te plat daarvoor en was verlore na die 2de paragraaf van die eerste artikel... nou het n ou dan dalk meer vrae, soos:
- hoekom doen alle loop vervaardigers dit dan nie as n 'reel' nie
- kan dit dan nie ook help met loop leeftyd nie....ens.

As dit dan nouwel n lekker oplossing is (sonder nadele natuurlik) dan is dit dalk n goue besigheids geleentjeid....



Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

Wag maar tot Krieger en Bartlein dit begin doen op hul lope. Die klink vir my na n plan om goeie geld agter swak lope aan te gooi
Ek dink nie dit is vreeslik duur in die US om dit te doen nie seker onder $100 so jy kan dalk n krom Remington sps bq beter laat skiet met dit
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
User avatar
Ralph Badenhorst
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:38 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Ralph Badenhorst »

JF123 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:35 pm Met verharding deur die staal te verhit en dan in olie of water te doop, verander die kristalstruktuur van die staal nie heeltemal nie. Dit veroorsaak dan stress. Meeste van die stres kan verlig word deur die staal te verhit to so 220?, Nie al die stres kan so verlig word nie want die verhardings proses is nie heeltemal klaar nie. Sovêr ek verstaan help die verkoeling om die verhardings proses klaar te maak en dan sodoende word al die stresse verwyder.

Van wikipedia
"Although quenching steel causes the austenite to transform into martensite, all of the austenite usually does not transform. Some austenite crystals will remain unchanged even after quenching below the martensite finish (Mf) temperature. Further transformation of the austenite into martensite can be induced by slowly cooling the metal to extremely low temperatures. Cold treating generally consists of cooling the steel to around -115˚F (-81˚C), but does not eliminate all of the austenite. Cryogenic treating usually consists of cooling to much lower temperatures, often in the range of -315˚F (-192˚C), to transform most of the austenite into martensite."

Bietjie ligte leesstof
https://ctpcryogenics.com/cryogenics/wh ... essing-do/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9303003010
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_hardening
https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/512
Julle manne moet nie mesmaak met loopmaak deurmekaar maak nie

Geen loop word verhard met n hitte en afkoel proses nie. 4140T (swart loop staal) sal in jou gesig bars as jy dit probeer doen. Lope word ook op baie hoer hitte gestress relief as die gewone kombuis oond. Daar is n verskil tussen temper en stress relief.

Groete

R jr
User avatar
Capt. Yoda
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 13526
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:35 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Capt. Yoda »

Dankie Ralph, ek het ook bq oor dit gewonder
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

Ralph dit lyk julle manne maak bitter mooi speelgoed.... so dalk kan jy bietjie help hier, om te sê of die storie enigsins waarheid agter dit kan hê ?

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
User avatar
Ralph Badenhorst
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:38 pm

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Ralph Badenhorst »

jdpretorius wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:11 pm Ralph dit lyk julle manne maak bitter mooi speelgoed.... so dalk kan jy bietjie help hier, om te sê of die storie enigsins waarheid agter dit kan hê ?

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk
Ek dink die vervaardigings metode is baie belangrik hier.

Ek weet van 2 vervaardigers in die vsa wat "pre stress relief" doen voor hulle die lope gundrill en groewe sny - let wel hierdie manne doen cut rifle metode

Die sny van groewe "induce" geen stres in die cut rifle metode nie. Dus kan die loop na die tyd ge contour word sonder dat die centerline van die bore skeef trek.

Button rifling, soos wat ons doen, kan of 1 keer of 2 keer gestress relief word.

Ons doen 2 stress relief stappe op 416R en 4140R.

Pre stress relief ( voor ons die lang gat boor) help om enige stress vanaf die staalmeule dood te maak.

Dit help ook dat die billet n eenvormige Rockwell hardheid het wat help dat jou gundrill meer reguit boor en tool lewe verleng. Harde kolle of stress kolle kan die boor laat afwyk en "banana bore" veroorsaak.

Button proses vervorm basies die staal en druk n gedeelte van die groewe se staal weg om die lande te skep ( daar is ook n variasie van hoe dit geskep word maar ons metode werk so)

Daardie split sekonde wat die lande en groewe vorm veroorsaak baie stress en daarom doen ons n 2de stress relief proses.

Om terug te kom na die vraag van cryogenic stress relief.

Al wat ek kan se is dat die riglyne vir 416R se stress relief cycle hitte verg vir die stess relief proses.

Ek weet Bartlein gebruik nou 400MODBB staal maar die stress relief proses n maar duister.

Ek verbeel my ekt die cryogenic proses van n loopvervaardiger op youtube gesien.

Weereens die riglyne vir 416R en 4140 se stress relief proses kom vanaf die metalurge by die meule.

Hoop dit help
User avatar
jdpretorius
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2465
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by jdpretorius »

Baie dankie Ralph....dit klink dan dinge is nie sommer net so eenvoudig as om n loop in nitrogen te druk nie.

Sent from my SM-A536E using Tapatalk

338 WM, 30-06 Sprg, 270 Win, 9mm, 12br
Groete, Johan
User avatar
Lategan1
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 2943
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:12 am

Re: Flyer as n loop warm word

Post by Lategan1 »

Ai lekker lag ek nou.

Goeie voorbeeld van wanneer mens begin grawe, sak jy net dieper in!

Klink my ons moet maar omvorm na ‘n mesmakersgilde toe.
;)

Ek het lekker saamgeleer en sou nie as die reg of verkeerd nie geplaas was nie.

Dankie vir jou info, Ralph.

Beste.
Jaggewere, haelgewere, rewolwers, jakkelskyk 8)
Post Reply