THE KILLER, Tim Wells

[Dimitri]

Wow. This guy is clearly a master with a bow in hand.

Why must the ethics card not be played? When is the right time to play the ethics card?

In my opinion, if something is ethically wrong the one should ALWAYS be prepared to play the ethics card. It not something you play selectively when it suits you or only in situations where you are unlikely to take any flack for pointing out the unethical. If he can consistently place an arrow into the vitals of a running gemsbuck at +-60m then I have no problem with that. However the fact that he used a spear on that Asian Water Buffalo is plainly unethical. I don't know whether is is brave or stupid but I do know that
- a spear is hardly likely to result in a clean, "one-throw" kill on an Asian Water Buffalo. It is not the right tool for the job. Don't we, as hunters, always advocate in using the right tools to ensure a "een skoot doodskoot?"
- none of the spears that he threw at the buffalo did anything more than result in a wounded animal. Does he care at all about causing it to suffer unnecessarily?

I would hate for anyone watching this - greenie or hunter - to think his stunt with the buffalo is acceptable or that he is some sort of hero for being brave enough to go that close with a spear. Pathetic.

[Cobus(Cobb)]

Dimitri

We are now doing exactly what Geno ask we dont do, and that is over analizing this thing..

People say hunting with a rifle is "wrong" as the a animal has no chance...playing field is not level.
This guy does all to level the playing field, by doing it as the Cave men did...now its pathetic...
Ethics is, I believe, as you see it as an individual.

I remember a post of yours long ago, where you hunted in an enclosed or small camp...you justified all you did and it was "ethical" in your book, but not in everybodies..
Let us leave these Ethic fights for the greenies

SORRY GENO, EK MOES NET GOU IETS SKRYF. HOPELIK IS DIT NOU VERDER NET 'N COOL VIDEO OM TE KYK

[Geno]

Wow. This guy is clearly a master with a bow in hand.

Why must the ethics card not be played? When is the right time to play the ethics card?

In my opinion, if something is ethically wrong the one should ALWAYS be prepared to play the ethics card. It not something you play selectively when it suits you or only in situations where you are unlikely to take any flack for pointing out the unethical. If he can consistently place an arrow into the vitals of a running gemsbuck at +-60m then I have no problem with that. However the fact that he used a spear on that Asian Water Buffalo is plainly unethical. I don't know whether is is brave or stupid but I do know that
- a spear is hardly likely to result in a clean, "one-throw" kill on an Asian Water Buffalo. It is not the right tool for the job. Don't we, as hunters, always advocate in using the right tools to ensure a "een skoot doodskoot?"
- none of the spears that he threw at the buffalo did anything more than result in a wounded animal. Does he care at all about causing it to suffer unnecessarily?

I would hate for anyone watching this - greenie or hunter - to think his stunt with the buffalo is acceptable or that he is some sort of hero for being brave enough to go that close with a spear. Pathetic.

Presies hoekom ek gevra het om nie die "ethics card" te speel nie.

if something is ethically wrong the one should ALWAYS be prepared to play the ethics card

^
Hierdie quote is juis hoekom ek nie daarvan hou as mense begin met "Dis nie eties nie!" ens.
So, dit beteken dat jy, Dimitri Psaros, jou idee van etiek op my, Eugene van Niekerk, probeer afdwing?

Volgens my, is etiek dit wat elke ou vir homself uitmaak as regverdig en reg teenoor dit wat hy jag.
Of dit met 'n blowgun of RPG is, maak nie saak nie.

Vir my is dit regverdig om jakkalse met kos- en jakkalsgeluide nader te lok, te verblind vanaf my jagbakkie, en hulle dan met 'n koeel te skiet wat teen 3900fps wegtrek. Volgens die CONservationists van Landmark, moet ek dit eerder met my kaal hande doen, want ek gee die jakkalsie nie 'n kans nie.

Groete,
Eugene

[Eugene]

Manne, onthou asseblief, etiek is so persoonlik soos geloof en is nie vir 2 ouens dieselfde nie. Elke gesprek op hierdie forum oor etiek, het nog net op 'n stryery uitgeloop, so kom ons los dit hier!

Daai man mag maar met 'n boog skiet! Ek glo nie hulle wys sy misskote nie, maar om dit wat hy doen met 'n compound reg te kry, sit nie in enige ou se broek nie!

[Dimitri]

Cobus

If I see something as wrong or unethical then I have a right to say so, regardless of who may have requested that ethics not be discussed. I saw no reason not to discuss is.

The people that say hunting with a rifle is wrong because the animal has no chance are ignorant, narrow minded and do not understand the difference between hunting and shooting. Either way - whether hunting or shooting an animal - the ethical person strives for a one-shot kill.

Would the field be more level for the buff is he went after it with a .22? Utter rubbish. You level the playing field by making the HUNT more challenging and uncertain. In the final act of the hunt - the killing - you use an appropriate tool skillfully to ensure the animal dies quickly and cleanly.

Cavemen did it for survival, not amusement.

I shot a fallow deer stag in a 100ha camp. I referred to it as a cull more than a hunt. I set myself strict rules (e.g. gave myself a time-limit within which I could try to shoot one, set myself a maximum distance at which I was allowed to shoot, set a max number of times I could bump the herd after which I would abandon the entire thing) which gave the fallow deer a reasonable chance of survival that day. As it turns out I manged a clean one-shot kill within my self-imposed rules. Some people may see that as unethical. That is fine. Similarly, I see other things as unethical.

The ethics fight is a fight every hunter should be prepared to have. It's not only for the greenies.

[Dimitri]

if something is ethically wrong the one should ALWAYS be prepared to play the ethics card

^
Hierdie quote is juis hoekom ek nie daarvan hou as mense begin met "Dis nie eties nie!" ens.
So, dit beteken dat jy, Dimitri Psaros, jou idee van etiek op my, Eugene van Niekerk, probeer afdwing?

Volgens my, is etiek dit wat elke ou vir homself uitmaak as regverdig en reg teenoor dit wat hy jag.
Of dit met 'n blowgun of RPG is, maak nie saak nie.

Geno,

I'm giving my opinion on an ethical issue.

If ethics is what every person decides for himself as fair i.t.o. what he is hunting then why did everybody criticize the guy, a while back, who shot that lion with a bow from the back of the bakkie? By your reasoning, if he decided that shooting a semi-tame lion from the back of the bakkie with a bow was ethical then it was indeed ethical!? I can't agree with that.

Do you really think it is OK to go after a buffalo with a spear?? The buffalo will not always charge and be readily available for the "hunter" to dispatch with his 458 when he is finished playing. The buffalo may well run away with a spear or two sticking out of it and take days to die. Is that OK with you as long as Tim Wells thought it was ethical?

Well it is not OK with me. I will see it as UNETHICAL, regardless of who starts a thread with "do not play the ethics card"

[Geno]

If ethics is what every person decides for himself as fair i.t.o. what he is hunting then why did everybody criticize the guy, a while back, who shot that lion with a bow from the back of the bakkie?

Want dis wat jagters, en veral die suid afrikaanse jagters doen. Hulle kannie wag om iemand se gat te brand en hom uit te kryt as oneties nie.
As iemand 'n leeu van 'n bakkie af wil skiet, laat hom. Dis net hy wat met sy eie gewete moet saamleef. En as hy boonop voel dat sy gewete skoon is, fine.
Ek sal dalk nie 'n leeu van 'n bakkie af wil skiet nie, of dalk sal ek. Dis vir myself om te besluit.

Do you really think it is OK to go after a buffalo with a spear??

Natuurlik. Ek sal dit ook wil doen, mits ek akkuraat genoeg kan gooi met daardie spies.

Well it is not OK with me.

Niks fout daarmee nie. Almal kan nie altyd saamstem oor alles nie. Dis hoekom mens baie versigtig moet wees as jy jou jagmaats kies.

[ROBBIE1]

Ja nee kyk n boog kan hy hanteer!!

Ek voel n video soos die een van die buffel, moet veral so ou eerder nie plaas nie, hou dit onder jou "private collection" soos die honderde mis skote, want daar sal ook beslis baie van hulle wees.

As hy dit wil try, fine, maar hou dit dan eerder vir jouself, dit sit my ook af! Almal van ons het al n dier gekwes, ek dink selfs Dimitri ook, wat dalk vir n dag so geloop het, (en dalk ook gevrek het sonder dat die jagter die dier kry) maar ons post nie sulke goed nie, nie omdat ons "skaam" is daaroor nie, nee, net omdat dit nie iets is wat mens ander wil laat sien hoe die dier gely het nie, dis dit!! Die buffel een bly vir my n "Rambo stunt", die res, iets om te waardeer!

Dankie Geno, die res was baie lekker om te kyk!

[Kosie777]

Die manne het seker lank terug die selfde gesprek gehad toe daar oorbeweeg is van klipgooi na spiesgooi toe.