How To Fight Gun Control South Africa

[NoStepOnSnek88]

Ek het hierdie thread geskep, want dit is iets wat ek, ten minste glo, ietwat kan "help" in die sin dat dit altyd beter is om iets te doen as om niks te doen nie en "hulle" te laat voortgaan om soveel artikels uit te druk as wat hulle wil, sonder dat enige van "ons" iets daar omtrent doen nie.
'n Kort inleiding oor waar dit alles begin het en hoekom ek besluit het om op hierdie Forum (Jaracal) te registreer. Dit het alles in Augustus 2022 begin, ek vir een en baie ander Forumlede wou "iets" doen aangaande die oorweldigende artikels, nuus, onderhoude, en "lugtyd" wat al hierdie Anti-Gun organisasies, Joernaliste, publikasies, ens. aan die gang gehad het.

Sekerlik kan "iets" gedoen word deur die gewone vuurwapeneienaar of selfs net 'n besorgde burger van die land. Omdat daar talle leuens was in elke artikel wat hulle gepubliseer het.
So "ons" wou hulle net daaroor uitroep, en dan as “ons” kon toelaat dat hulle in kontak kom met een van die verskillende organisasies of individue aan "ons" kant, sal dit 'n bonus wees.

So gelukkig het ons forum lede soos, Dick Boothroyd beskikbaar op die "ander" forum, en talle ander met baie kennis en ervaring in die hantering van hierdie tipe "Anti-Gun" organisasies en media.
So, hoe om dit te "beveg”? "ons" het vir Dick gevra om 'n nuwe Thread te skep, oor "How To “Fight” Gun Control”, wel die gewone burger, soos hy baie dekades gelede gedoen het en nog steeds briewe uit stuur.
Kyk dis baie eenvoudig, al wat dit verg is deelname, niks anders nie, niks meer nie.
Indien enige IEMAND belangstel om "deel te neem" of verder hieroor wil oplees, sal ek die links plaas na die "ander" forum waar dit alles begin het. Ook die link na die Facebook privaat groep "People Against Gun Free South Africa" was verwelkomend en ondersteunend was en nog steeds is.
Die "ander" forum, of forums in die algemeen, het om verskeie ander redes net nie die sagteware om so iets te ondersteun nie, so ook nie Facebook nie. So "ons" het 'n Telegram groep in Februarie 2023 begin, gebaseer op die "ander" Forum Thread.

Die korttermyn "visie" is net om hierdie groep te laat groei en aan te hou om dit te "bemark", aangesien mense sal kom en gaan, die “lewe” gebeur en natuurlik sal dit prioriteit oor so iets vat. Die korttermyn doelwit, vir nou, is net om 'n VOLUME mense betrokke te kry en hulle te laat “deelneem” om fisies antwoorde (e-posse) aan die Redakteurs, publikasies, Joernaliste, media, koerante, ens uit te stuur en ook dan natuurlik ook “spotters” te wees, deur links na die artikels en kontakbesonderhede te deel.
Die groep is redelik eenvoudig dit is om soveel mense (deelnemers) te kry as moontlik, maar aktief betrokke deur meer proaktief te wees, deur artikels, insetsels, uitsendings en dan, die BELANGRIKSTE, daarop te reageer, deur briewe (e-posse) aan daardie redakteur publikasie, radiostasie, koerant, Joernalis, TV-program, Premier, politikus, ens, uit te stuur.

Die groep is nie geaffilieer met enige organisasies of individue nie, dis net gewone Suid-Afrikaanse burgers wat meer proaktief probeer wees, dit is alles vrywillig, ons wil nie die indruk wek dat ons “georganiseer” is nie.
Om dit kortliks te verduidelik, dink aan hierdie groep soos 'n plaaslike CPF / Buurtwag WhatsApp groep, jy sien iets, en jy “rapporteur” dit op die Telegram groep, met 'n link na die spesifieke artikel / uitsending en kontak besonderhede (epos address) jy kan dit ook rapporteer aan die verskeie ander organisasies soos GOSA, SAGA, NATSHOOT, NARFO, FPC, FOSA, Safe Citizen, Martin Hood, of wie jy ook al kies.

Die waarheid is, selfs al het ons 1000 “deelnemers” in hierdie Telegram groep, beteken dit nie altyd dat wanneer iets gedeel (gesien) word, sal al 1000 deelnemers 'n antwoord (e-pos) sal kan uitstuur aangesien "die lewe" se prioriteit bo iets soos die altyd meer belangrik sal wees, en dit is heeltemal verstaanbaar.

SO WEEREENS, VOLUME IS BELANGRIK hierdie groep kan dalk vir weke aaneen dood stil wees en dan weer dalk dae aaneen gons, deelname is uiters belangrik, en dit is presies waarvoor hierdie groep is, so eenvoudig soos dit, stuur briewe (e-posse) elke keer wanneer 'n artikel gedeel (gesien) word.

MOENIE geïntimideer voel deur 'n brief (epos) te skryf of voel jou e-pos is nie goed genoeg nie. As 'n publikasie / redakteur 10 uitstekende briewe ontvang is dit goed, maar om 100 gewone briewe te ontvang is BAIE MEER betekenisvol en glo “ons” maak 'n verskil en laat “hulle” twee keer dink, weereens VOLUME en deelname is uiters belangrik.

Laastens, hierdie groep is geskep uit AL die insette van die privaat Facebook groep People Against Gun-Free South Africa (PAGFSA) en ook die Gun Site South Africa Forum "How to Fight Gun Control" Thread, maar omdat Facebook nie 'n goeie platform vir so iets is nie, en die Forum ook nie, dit is meer as gevolg van sagteware en “spamming”.

Hier is die links vir die GS Forum en Facebook groep, as iemand belangstel om deur dit te lees.

SOUTH AFRICAN GUN SITE FORUM:
https://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/showth ... un-Control

FACEBOOK PRIVATE GROUP:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3703735 ... tid=Nif5oz


“Ons” wil net dankie aan almal wat reeds aangesluit het en bygedra het tot hierdie “metode” van “baklei” en steeds so aanhou doen. Ek hoop om van julle binnekort in die Telegram groep te sien.

Laastens, hierdie is NIE 'n koop en verkoop groep nie, ook nie vir advertensies, toerusting of enige iets van daai aard nie.

Hier is die links as jy wil aansluit:

Main Group:

https://t.me/+qzLqIPl_FEg1ZDA0


Alert Group:

https://t.me/+Xw9KNaOR_5dlZDVk

[NoStepOnSnek88]

*** Shared on the Telegram Group ***

It's behind a pay wall, but the member has a subscription and managed to copy&paste the article for us.
This is a smear campaign/ article against all legal gun owners.

If you haven't yet joined the Telegram Group here's the link again.

Telegram Group: https://t.me/+qzLqIPl_FEg1ZDA0



Link:
https://www.news24.com/citypre...-socie ... s-20230430

Last week, 10 members of one family were shot dead in their home in Imbali, Pietermaritzburg, as they were whiling away the evening. A few days earlier, four men had been killed in KwaMashu, Durban, while having a couple of drinks.

Two months ago, gunmen walked into a house where a party was being held in KwaZakhele, Gqeberha, and opened fire. Four people died and several others were injured. This followed a similar situation in the same township a month earlier, when 11 were killed.

This is just this year. Last year witnessed a string of mass shootings at taverns around the country, with the worst being the one that claimed 16 lives in Soweto. For the past few years, Cape Town's townships have been the site of weekend massacres that took the lives of dozens of people.

This has been a sobering experience for us South Africans who are so used to seeing senseless killings taking place in that gun-crazy place called the United States of America.

We can comfort ourselves with the fact that our killings are not random, but are linked to feuds, rackets and gang rivalries. It somehow makes us feel better that our shootings are not done by disturbed individuals who walk into schools, churches, nightclubs and supermarkets and randomly shoot children and adults they have no grudge against.

The idea that at least our gun massacres have a rational basis is the reason for the complacency around gun control in this country. We do not want to admit that we have a gun problem.

South Africa's gun lobby has developed the fundamentalism that afflicts the US's firearm zealots who have made that country's constitutional second amendment an article of faith. Using the country's high crime rate as a pretext, gun lobbyists argue that the best way for good citizens to defend themselves against the criminal element is by basically armed the citizenry. This lobby has become highly litigious.

It has also become adept at inserting the protection of gun ownership and fighting off stricter firearm regulations by forcing it on to the agendas within some opposition parties.

What they conveniently ignore is that most of the guns that are in the hands of the criminal element originate from legal gun owners who lose them through negligence or robberies that they couldn't even use the guns to defend themselves from.

What this then says is that South Africa's civilian population is playing a big role in arming the criminals who terrorise us. In short, when you buy a gun, you are contributing to the criminals' potential arsenal.

There is, of course, the phenomenon of guns smuggled into the country through international syndicates – particularly the high-calibre variety – and those lost by police officers end up in the criminals' arsenal.

But a huge chunk comes from the licensed gun owners who want to make it even easier for them to own guns, with much reduced accountability. The gun lobby was even resisting the need for regular licence renewal, taking the matter all the way to the highest courts. When they lost the case, there were about 450 000 gun licences that had not been renewed, meaning they were technically illegal. The department of police then declared a six-month amnesty period for these gun-owners to regularise their gun ownership. By the end of the amnesty period, only 80 000 had taken up the offer. This indicates the sense of impunity and carelessness among individuals.

According to Gun Free SA, about 8 900 guns were stolen last year, most probably never to be tracked down until the thieves who have them use them to commit crimes. Yet we continue to have this lax attitude towards our gun problem.

Even as national crime stats show an uptick in gun violence and we witness the types of massacres we have seen, we continue to be in denial. And even as we witness the glorification of guns in popular culture and on social media, the issue is not being moved into mainstream debate.

South Africa has myriad urgent challenges, with violent crime ranking as one of the major ones.

It is an impediment to investment and economic growth, a driver of skills loss, a burden on the health system, a disincentive to tourists and a great cause of everyday pain and anxiety.

Guns are central to this scourge. It is obvious that dealing with the prevalence of legal and illegal guns should be central in the search for a solution. Reducing the number of legal guns would be a big first step.

Should we not be having a conversation about whether, in a violent society like ours, civilians should be owning guns at all? As we head towards an election campaign, shouldn't one of the major parties put out the proposition that we start working towards a society where only the armed forces and licensed security companies are permitted to own firearms?

Gun fanatics love to argue that it is people, not guns, that kill. But as Gun Free SA said in the wake of recent mass shootings: "A gun massacre cannot happen without guns. The increasing flood of guns and ammunition into our society means more gun violence, including gun massacres. Currently, 30 people are shot and killed every day in South Africa."This is a chilling message and a clarion call.

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[PeterM]

See my introduction.

[NoStepOnSnek88]

See my introduction.

Greetings Peter.

Thanks for the reply, I've sent you a private message.

If you haven't received it, please let me know.

[Capt. Yoda]

Ek kry EV vibes hier

[NoStepOnSnek88]

Ek kry EV vibes hier

Goeie dag, Capt Yoda.

Nie seker wat jy meen met "EV vibes" nie ?

[PeterM]

Ek kry EV vibes hier

"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."

I seriously doubt that. If you think anything is incorrect do mention it and why. I'm happy to correct because you cannot win any fight or war on bullshit. That much should be obvious to every firearm owner in South Africa by now.

Explain you must.

[Gawie(13mm)]

Branden, Peter welkom by ons kampvuur.
Jaracal is nie Facebook of GS nie. Die manne op Jaracal is baie ligtig vir enige nuwe lede wat sommer met die deur in die huis val.
Die manne wil darem eers bietjie gesels voor hul, hul oor vir jou sal leen.
Alhoewel ons hoofsaaklik dieselfde dam se eende is, verskil ons gereeld, maar ons respekteer mekaar se siening.
Die kort en die lank is dat niemand deur 'n vreemdeling oorweldig wil word in sy eie huis nie.

Jul moetiewe is sekerlik edel, maar jul aanslag is soos om vir 'n derde generasie skaapboer te wil vertel dat jakkalse en rooi-katte hul grootste vyand is.

Elke liewe jagters-vereniging en pro-wapen organisasie in Suid Afrika word op Jaracal verteenwoordig.

Niemand bombardeer sy mede lede met inligting nie, behalwe ons eie Don Quixote wat die EV windmeule bestorm.

Indien jul werklik hier is om 'n bydra te lewer, sal ek voorstel dat jul eers jul mede lede leer ken en leer hoe ons die fyn houtjies te breek sonder om splinters onder jul naels te kry, voor jul die groot stompe nader sleep en op ons kampvuur gooi.

[OosKaapJagter]

Onthou net dat ons nie 'n sogenaamde "Second Amendment" in die Grondwet of 'n "right to bear arms" soos in die VSA het nie. Selfs daar word hulle regte deesdae erg afgewater.

In die toetssake hier plaaslik in die Konstitusionele Hof (die hoogste gesag!) is onomwonde beslis dat vuurwapen eienarskap 'n voorreg is en nie 'n reg nie. Ons beweeg dus op baie dun ys.

Dit is elkeen se plig as wettige vuurwapeneienaar om verantwoordelik en gedissiplineerd op te tree. Ons het geen beheer oor misdadigers se optrede anders as om onsself teenoor hulle te verweer nie.

Dit is kommerwekkend hoeveel misdade gepleeg word met vuurwapens. Elke sodanige insident gee verdere skietgoed aan Gun Free SA en die liberale media wat aan hulle lippe hang. Politici wil wys hulle doen iets en die enigste ding wat 'n politikus kan vermag is om nuwe wetgewing uit te vaardig, ongeag hoe nadelig of dom dit ookal mag wees.

Pasop om nie te luidrugtig te wees nie. Ons huidige generasie politici is soos steeks donkies wat presies die teenoorgestelde sal doen as waarvoor geskreeu word, net om aspris te wees.

Die beste strategie is myns insiens om soveel van ons mede landgenote subtiel aan ons kant te kry. Niks verhoed die regering om met 'n eenvoudige meerderheid in die parlement wetgewing deur te voer wat alle vuurwapens verbied nie.

Wees dus baie versigtig om nie slapende honde wakker te maak nie. Ek hou nie van dit wat ek hier kwytraak nie en stem geensins saam met die anti-wapen groepe nie. Dit wat ek egter hier noem is die feitlike realiteit waarmee ons sit.

[Capt. Yoda]

Ek kry EV vibes hier

"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five."

I seriously doubt that. If you think anything is incorrect do mention it and why. I'm happy to correct because you cannot win any fight or war on bullshit. That much should be obvious to every firearm owner in South Africa by now.

Explain you must.

Askies ek verstaan nie Engels nie ?

[Ratel]

Ek stem met wat Gawie en Oos Kaap jagter hierbo se. Dan ook die manier hoe n nuwe lid homself voorstel op n forum spreuk boekdele. GS sal dit dalk akkomodeer. Volg maar gerus die raad van die lede hierbo.

Om terug te kom na die OP. Ek het Dick se bydrae gelees op GS en alles wat hy se maak sin en ek stem saam. Onthou net dat almal nie ewe behendig namens vuurwapen eienaars kan praat nie. Dit kos een vuurwapen eienaar wat dalk iets verkeerd se of sy cool verloor tydens so 'n deelname en dan kan dit die res byt. Dis duidelik uit Dick se pos dat hy enorme navorsing ens gedoen het en nie net uit die vuis uit praat tydens so 'n debat nie nie. Ek dink verder dat elke ou op sy/haar eie unieke manier 'n verskil kan maak oor bewusmaking van verantwoordelike vuurwapen eienaarskap. Of dit nou die baan offisier op die baan is wie nuwelinge leer hoe om nie vir GFSA skietgoed te gee nie tot en met die ou wie aktief deelneem en debateer. Elke ou sal weet waarmee is hy goed.

[PeterM]

I'm telling that you cannot win any fight on bullshit. If you think winning is repeating what failed because you do not even know why anything failed can you win?

Is it true or not? If true can you fight government in governments courts? If somebody says you can what is that claim? A thief steals your vehicle and it is found but the thief still has it. You take the thief to court.

When you arrive at "court" you find it is the thief's house, the whole place is run by the thief's family and the judge is the thief's brother. You get told nope you cannot have your vehicle back. Now what? Well that is what firearm owners are faced with after every gun law or change in that law. You are not answering the "now what" but pretending you can win again in the thief's court. No firearm organisation has answered the and now what except SALGO and GOSA who had the answer and threw it away to go with lets try the bullshit again it will work next time. It is unfortunate that personal beliefs, greed, ignorance and an unwillingness to change are always more acceptable or "liked". People would rather fight change than change as they cling to what they know.

Can you win a fight if you have no objective, strategy, plan, no informed decision making, no knowledge of what kind of fight it is?

Can you win if you have tried and failed and do not know why you failed or even if you won?

What measure determines winning? What is loss measured with?

When Sun Tzu wrote the Art of War and I quote
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Which case fits firearm owners and why? If you think winning is repeating what failed because you do not even know why anything failed can you win?

Do a google search for "how to fight gun control" and see where you are with respect to answers. The question really is do you really want to win and will you do what is needed to win? I do not want to have to fight people who are going to tell me how to win because you do not know. This fight can only be won by people who want to win and winning means removing gun control and gun laws not finding some comfort zone because that does not exist. It is sink or swim, your choice. I either walk away not wasting my time or those who want to win get started on winning. I'm not being arrogant about this either, I am telling you that you will not find the answers anywhere in the world unless you know what you are looking for. 22 google hits will give you the proof of that.

[OosKaapJagter]

As I've stated before, be careful not to step on the wrong toes.

All this fighting talk has me concerned. Just look at how many times the word fight and the word win appears in the last post. Kindly bear in mind that it is idiotic to start a fight or war or whatever you want to call it from a position of weakness.

We do not have a constitutional right to bear arms. The highest court in the country has declared unequivocally that it is a privilege to possess a firearm and not a right to do so. No amendment to the Constitution is required to ban all firearms. A simple majority in Parliament will suffice. Let that thought sink in for a moment.

I often hear brave talk from some claiming that they will never submit to such legislation. Talk is cheap. Let us see if anyone is willing to bear the consequences for himself and his family once a group of 16 police officials arrive to effect an arrest or seize weapons.

It is still my view that sensible reasoning and subtle strategy will go further to secure positive results in the long run.

As bad as we may perceive our current legislation to be, compare it to how for example Canadians, New Zealanders, Australians and European citizens have it at the moment.

If you kick a sleeping dog with a vicious temperament, don't be surprised if it jumps up and bites you. Rather keep that dog fat and lazy.

[Lategan1]

Dankie Ooskaap. Feite en gesonde logika mooi uitgestippel.

Beste.

[Ratel]

Ek moet saamstem dat hier n EV klankie is.

[Capt. Yoda]

Ek moet saamstem dat hier n EV klankie is.

[jankraay]

Ek moet saamstem dat hier n EV klankie is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dries Skiet]

Ek dink nie die is ons dam se eende nie. Dalk moet hulle eerder maar verby hou.