QL hulp - 180gr in .30-06

[Toxxyc]

Middag mense,

Ek wil graag Federal se 180gr Fusion lading probeer "copy". Ek het Federal doppe, 180gr Fusion pitte en S361, maar ek sal nie omgee om te ruil na iets soos VV N540 toe nie. Ek weet nie wat die dopvolume is nie, maar die Federal doppe is nou al "fire formed" so hulle sal die kamer mooi pas. Lengtes en alles is reg gesny so ek dink generiese waardes sal werk.

Kan iemand my sê waar ek kan begin? Ek skiet 'n Rem 700 met 'n 24" pencilbarrel met 'n knaldemper op. Geweer skiet lekker met fabrieksammo en ek wil nou die 1.5" verklein na 0.5" toe.

[Dale SH]

Forget about S361 unless it's the only propellant available and you don't mind excess muzzle flash.
Reloder 16, Viht N550, Norma URP, Lovex S065 are your preferred powders.

[Joe13]

Ek stem saam met Dale, ek self gebruik VV N550 in my 06 en hy werk mooi.

[Toxxyc]

Ek het gesien N540 is ook 'n opsie, en dis beskikbaar en goedkoper. Hoe vergelyk hy met N550?

[Dale SH]

N540 is literally the equivalent of a "fast" batch of S355.
Fine for 150 - 155 grain bullets.
Not optimal for 180 grain
Low case fill and lower node speed at "higher" pressure.

[Toxxyc]

Hmm. I wonder why it's punted as a "heavier bullet" powder then. Anyway, I think I'm going to go with Norma URP. Will that work?

[Dale SH]

Hmm. I wonder why it's punted as a "heavier bullet" powder then. Anyway, I think I'm going to go with Norma URP. Will that work?

Yes it will.

[Dale SH]

These two loads are both on Node 5

30-06 Viht N540.jpg

30-06 norma URP.jpg

Please note that these are predictions using default values only and this data is not be used until we have safe calibrated data for your rifle and components.

[Dale SH]

And here is the outright winner if only we could get some in the country.

30-06 Reloder 17.jpg

[LUAN]

And how would N550 perform?

[Dale SH]

Once again this is a theoretical prediction only.

30-06 Viht N550.jpg

[LUAN]

Not bad thanks Dale. Would it still be a good choice with a 22inch barrel?

[Dale SH]

Node 5 22 inch
Prediction only

30-06 Viht N550 22 inch.jpg

[Toxxyc]

OK so if I'm reading these right, N540 burns too quickly, and burns out before the bullet exits the muzzle. That's why the pressure is higher, and that's why the velocity is lower (bullet slows down before it exits). So it's just plain daft to use this.

Also, what I can see is that Reloder-17 seems to be the best powder - but stock is an issue (I've been looking for it, actually). Second best would then be Norma URP. Good velocity and relatively low pressure. The charge QL predicts is VERY close to what Hearties gave me for a similar bullet with the same powder - 83.6mm COL with a 54.5g powder charge. It seems that's the one I'm going to go with.

Out of stupid interest @Dale, and sorry to bother with this, but would you mind giving me the info on Node 4 for Norma URP? I intend on loading from slow anyway, so I might just as well play with the lower node. It's a hunting load, so a bit slower might not be the worst at all.

As a PS: I measured my cases a while back and found their water weight to be 69.8 grains. It's a tad lower than usual (S&B cases), so I'll just load a tad lighter loads as well.

[tripodmvr]

Dropping down in pressure and speed would mean Node 6. Pressure is not bad if in the safe zone as that ensures proper ignition = low ES. (50-55K psi for a rifle with 60K max)

Supplying your gun data assists in making a better prediction for starting loads. It is already in the QL database once you supply load and speed achieved and will make life easier for Dale in doing the calcs. For best results ensure that all data is measured.

[Toxxyc]

I am not entirely sure what data he wants. I now know the case volume, and can provide whatever else he needs as well, given I can measure/take it.

[tripodmvr]

Measure the following :- Barrel length, case volume (already given and larger than 68.2 default in QL) and the COL you are going to use with your chosen bullet.

Read the guidelines below as well.Bullet jump is handy as that can cause pressure spikes.

viewtopic.php?f=132&t=7805
viewtopic.php?f=132&t=8109

[Toxxyc]

Yeah I know about the jump, but I was figuring QL produces that info. Heh. I don't mind a jump. Barrel is 24" (case volume is given). I would prefer a nice balance between accuracy and pressure when it comes to the jump.

EDIT: Oh yes, also have a suppressor fitted. I know it makes a difference in velocity, but not sure if QL wants that info.

[tripodmvr]

Shoot without till you have the data for a node.

I propose a jump of at least 1mm for normal bullets and 2mm for monolithic. Knowing the actual jump then helps with analyzing anomalies. Just measure the barrel. A stated 24 inch is not always exactly that.

[Toxxyc]

Interesting, you mentioning that jump. I played with 155gr monos a while back in this rifle and they refused to group until I closed the jump down to 0.3mm. Now they shoot OK. Not great, but OK.

I'll do the other measurements over the weekend. I'd like to do this "right" this time around. Last time was just throwing to the wall to see what sticks.

[tripodmvr]

1. Where do I seat the TSX, Tipped TSX and LRX bullets?

When loading a Barnes TSX, Tipped TSX or LRX bullet, your rifle may prefer a bullet jump of anywhere between (a minimum of) .050” up to .250” or more. This distance off the lands (rifling), aka "jump" may be limited to the rifles throat length, magazine length and bullet length.

When selecting the cartridge overall length (COAL) we recommend starting with a minimum “jump” of .050” off of the lands. You can test different seating depths and find a “sweet spot” that your particular firearm prefers. We suggest working in at least .025” increments as follows seating the bullet deeper to allow a further jump. Your test plan could look something like this:

1st group- .050” jump
2nd group- .075” jump
3rd group- .100” jump
4th group- .125” jump
5th group- .150“ jump
6th group- * see below

This length can be determined by using a “Stoney Point Gauge” or other methods. You do not have to seat the bullet at, or on one of the cannelure rings. Remember there are many factors that may control or limit the seating depth for your application. You may find that you need to start at around 0.150” off the lands and are not able to get any closer due to limiting factors including proper neck tension and magazine length.

*In rifles that have long throats you may be limited on how close you are able to get the bullet to the lands. In these instances, it is not uncommon to find the best accuracy with a jump of .200” or more.

This jump may possibly stay the same regardless of powder or charge weight within a given rifle. If preferred accuracy is not obtained, we certainly recommend trying another powder, for the powder type and charge greatly affects the overall accuracy of each individual firearm.

FYI- An accurate load requires a bullet with the proper consistent case neck tension which leads to more constant pressures and velocities.

[Toxxyc]

Yeah that's exactly what I did with those bullets. I played between powder charges and found one that grouped best. Then I started shooting with different COALs (as they call it) and found the shortest jump grouped best. As I kept firing longer jumps the groups kept opening up. I then went back to the short jump and immediately they closed down again. So they like a short jump, for some reason.

[tripodmvr]

Longer COL pushes up pressure and speed increases. I would first get up to node speed with a 2mm jump. If it does not work I will only then play with COL. Normal way of load development.

[Toxxyc]

I'm aware of the increase in pressure and speed, yes. I selected a slower powder charge for that reason that still grouped well. Maybe those bullets just doesn't work well in my rifle, because when using 2mm jump my groups opened up to "I don't care for that" levels.

[Toxxyc]

Once again this is a theoretical prediction only.
30-06 Viht N550.jpg

I'm going to start with this load, cut by 2g and working my way up. Going to keep the COL at 84mm to avoid higher pressures, and work from there. Thanks Dale, appreciate the assistance!