Groenes benadering oor Probleem dier beheer

[britsman]

Hallo  Kruger en almal,

   Kruger, Het jy al die groenes se uitlos storie oor ALPA male & female  jakkies probeer?

Quote
Because of their migrations towards agricultural areas; if you mention black-backed jackals to a sheep farmer in South Africa, he would probably reach for his gun.

This would be the worst thing to do. Jackals are normally seen as being wary of humans and are not considered "aggressive" towards larger animals like sheep. But when one of them kills a sheep, farmers take their vengeance by killing all the jackals in sight. The farmer may kill the alpha-male, and this puts in motion an evil cycle during which both the farmer and jackal become worse off.

The black-jackals, like all other jackals, are territorial and work in pairs. Without the alpha-male the territory is fair game and there are plenty of sub-males around, waiting to exploit the gap. Being less established, they may have had to become inventive in their hunting. Maybe they have learned to kill sheep. They?ll take over the range and teach other youngsters their skills.

By dominating breeding cycles, alpha-females can keep whole territories unproductive. But the interlopers will generally chase her away once her mate is killed, and without her younger females will begin to breed. There will soon be more pups around, and lots of dumb sheep to feed them on.

This means a higher survival rate, which means more jackals. Pretty soon the farmer is losing considerable amounts of his flock. To him it seems like a vendetta-each generation is harder to trap, harder to poison, harder to fool and harder to kill. Unquote

   Wat is jou mening oor dit?
dankie,
               britsman

[jaracal]

Britsman
Hierdie is die grootste snert wat Suid van die Kongo verkondig word. Daar is dele wat baie min jakkalse het. Ek praat van bv Bitterfontein (weskus) 300 000ha net 1 paar met 3 kleintjies. (Het 'n vriend wat daar jag en boer) Die area word skoon gehou. Indien die paar en kleintjies uitgelos word sal hulle mos aanteel om die 300 000ha te vul. Die kleintjies sal na hulle eie gebiede migreer binne die 300 000 ha en dan begin teel, want hulle is die territoriale paar in die area. Nou het jy al twee dominante pare en so is die werklike bose kringloop. Kleinvee areas is nog nie op, noem dit volle kapasiteit (aantal jakkalse per ha) nie. So as hulle gelos word teel hulle tot hulle bv 1 pare per 400-500ha is. Dan skop die deel in van die dominante of Alpha Male and female onderdruk die aanteel. Ek jag in areas met 1 paar jakkalse op tussen 3000 tot 5000ha. Indien jy hulle los sal hulle aanteel tot 10 pare op die 5000 ha. Maar watter kleinvee boer wil met soveel jakkalse per hektaar op sy plaas sit. Dit is wat die groenes nie in hulle koppe kan kry nie. Jy kan ongelukkig ook nie met hulle stry nie want hulle glo vas in hulle siening en is on-oortuigbaar.

Groete

Heinrich

[Kruger]

Hallo Britsman

Ek glo ons almal stem saam dat daar geen boere is in ons nasionale parke en Etosha wat "reaching for their guns" is nie. Dus is daar mos die ideale natuurlike omstandighede soos wat hierdie manne wil h? op ons plase ook moet wees. Indien dit so was dat alpha male en female ander jakkalse weghou, sou ons mos nooit meer as 2 jakkalse saam gesien het in 'n area nie. Die alpha male en female van daardie area sou hulle mos verjaag het. Waarom sien ons dan so algemeen tot amper 20 jakkalse wat saam vreet aan 'n groot karkas? Dit is die eerste rede waarom ek die teorie afskiet.

Ten tweede, daar is oor genoeg bewaar areas waar jakkalse en rooikatte beskerm word, dat ek nie die nodigheid kan insien om hulle op my plaas ook te beskerm nie. Die territoriale paar wat dan kwansuis die ander weghou is nie vegetariers nie. Hulle vreet ook my vee en dit is 'n bewysde feit dat jou territoriale paar verantwoordelik is vir die meeste skade op 'n plaas. Een paar jakkalse wat 2 lammers per week vang veroorsaak skade ten koste van R62 000 per jaar. Verder teel hulle ook en volgende jaar gaan daar 8 jakkalse wees en nie net 2 nie. Die groenes hou vol dat die kleintjies sal uitwyk na ander areas, maar in gebiede met baie jakkalse gebeur dit nie meer nie, aangesien alle gebiede basies gevul is. Wat nou gebeur is die territoriale gebied van pare word kleiner sodat almal ge-akkomodeer kan word. Daardie 2 territoriale jakkalse het nou 8 territoriale jakkalse geword op dieselfde area. Onder natuurlike omstandighede sal dit waarskynlik nie gebeur nie as gevolg van 'n tekort aan kos, maar ons op skaapplase produseer meer aanteel per hektaar, dus is daar steeds genoeg te vreet vir hulle almal.

Ongeveer 10/15 jaar gelede het jakkalse hier begin inbeweeg, dus was die hele area oop vir hulle. Daardie selfde area is nou so versadig dat hier verlede jaar 3 neste uitgehaal het is binne 'n totale area van 1400ha, dus 466ha per paar. Probeer boer onder sulke omstandighede..... Beskerm jakkalse in die gebiede geallokeer vir natuurbewaring (en hou hulle daar binne!!!) en laat ons boer in die areas geallokeer vir boerdery.

Net my mening, Britsman. Hoop jy stem saam.

[LMB]

As dit so was, hoekom verdwyn die springbokke en ander kleinwild in natuurreservate?
Dieselfde kan van toepassing gemaak word op wildplase en skaapplase waar boere probeer "saamboer" het, na seker 15 jaar kan hulle nog nie met skaap boer nie.
Dit is hierdie tipe van uitlatings wat tyd mors, daarom my voorstel dat daar saam met hierdie slimmes gewerk word sodat die stellings verkeerd of reg bewys kan word op `n deursigtige wyse voordat dit as wet verkondig word deur een profeet.
As hy nie wil saamwerk nie, dan kan daar mos ges? word met reg, dat die profeet nie gesag het om te praat, sy stellings ongegrond en ongetoets is.  Nou moet hy spreekbeurt kry waar eensydige stellings en aannames verkondig word en dan word daar gestry daaroor sonder bewyse.
Ek druk my seker nie reg uit, maar ek glo julle verstaan wat ek bedoel. Ek weet dit gaan nie maklik wees nie, maar wattter maklike oplossing is daar.

Ter afsluiting, waar daar nie probleem diere is, soos vir baie jare nie was, hoef ons nie te probeer bewys wat die effek van alpha diere is nie, daar is nie so iets waar daar nie probleemdiere is nie.
Hulle hoort nie in veegebiede nie, dit weet ons is die enigste volhoubare oplossing. Hou hul in natuurreservate as dit moet.

Groete
Lukas

[tafjak]

Manne

Die EERSTE APRIL is lankal verby en ons moet nog 'n jaar wag om grappe te maak, maar ek waardeer altyd 'n grappie op sy tyd. Heinrich is soos ek hom ken goed opgevoed om nie kras woorde te gebruik nie, maar ek kan aan 'n hele paar ander woorde dink wat "snert" kan vervang.

Ek raak net opge"charge" as ek sulke snotstories hoor en sien. As ek die ding so reglees van die 60 000 hektaar wat Bob Smuts en Trawante wil afbaken om net anatoliese beheer toe te pas op jakkalse en katte, gaan dit ook maar 'n gemors afgee. Dit is nogal te naby aan my en Kruger om die ding daar te los. Hulle sal moet geld uithaal om dit reg te kry en dit sal die kind van die katel stoot omdat ou Bobsie te lief is daarvoor.

Sal maar sien.

Taffie

[britsman]

Heinrich / Kruger / Lucas en ou Taffman,
  Dankie vir die antwoorde. Julle is, in my mening, reg.Ek het orals op die internet gekyk watter metodes gebruik word is om probleem diere te beheer. In party gebiede in Aus strooi hulle 1080 gif aas van vliegtuie om die dingo's te beheer.In USA waar baie navorsing  op coyote's gedoen is, een van die dinge wat hulle uitgevind is dat die ALPHA paar omtrend in al die aanvalle op vee verantewordelik is.Die BETA's het wel aan die karkasse gevreet.Wat ook gevind is dat ALPHA coyote's wat meestal natuurlike proei eet of vang, sal vee vang as hulle kleintjies het ,omdat dit maklik en vollop is. As die kleintjies van  kant gemaak is dan gaan gie ALPHA's terug na hulle natuurlike  proei. Hulle noem dit "Denning Control".Daar is ook gewys dat daar is goeie coyotes, maar as die vee trop uit hulle kerngebied beweeg word hulle dan gevang deur "bad dogs". Vra hoe weet jy of hulle "good or bad" is as jy die sneller moet trek?

bm

[Kruger]

Vra hoe weet jy of hulle "good or bad" is as jy die sneller moet trek?

Hi Britsman

Die antwoord op hierdie vraag is eintlik heel eenvoudig. As jy deur die teleskoop kyk en hy l? doodstil, bek oop met verkieslik taamlik bloed in die omgewing is hy waarskynlik een van die goeies. Indien hy egter regop staan, onlangs nog beweeg het en geen brommers naby hom is nie is hy een van die slegtes. Skiet hom onmiddelik!!!

Groete

[britsman]

Kruger,
              SO BE IT-----IT WILL BE DONE 
                                        bm

[Ambessa]

Hallo Jaracal

Wat gaan ons doen?

Ek het voorgestel ouens kontak ou B.. direk. Die probleem is dat hy dan noooooiiiiiiitttt weer jou e-pos kan uitlos nie. Nou het 'n jonge kornuit ook die swak gewoonte aangeleer.

Ambessa

[jaracal]

Ambessa
Ek begin al hoe meer dink ek moet hulle direk antwoord. Moontlik raak ek ook populer en kry 'n paar x-rated e-mails.

Groete
Heinrich

[LMB]

Heinrich
Kry vir jou `n google of yahoo epos adres met skuilnaam. Dis mos hoe hy dit doen. Dan kan jy die epos stop as dit jou pas.

Groete
Lukas

[britsman]

Lucas / Hein/Ambessa/ Kruger en almal,

   Ek gaan nog 'n klippie in die bos gooi. Laat weet julle mening hieroor.

The following comes from the Animal Damage Control Institute (ADCI)  www.jackal.co.za/afr/afr_ADC.html

IMPORTANT CONCEPTS

To understand the current problem animal situation and to sensibly plan the way forward, it is necessary to be aware of large number of important concepts. I won't even try to cover these concepts in detail within the confines of this web-site. However we will look at some and discuss the most important effects they have on our damage control efforts. Anybody interested in more detail are wellcome to attend a course, or contact me by e-mail.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE AIM THROUGHOUT IS TO LIMIT DAMAGE AND NOT TO KILL ANIMALS!

Damage control on an ongoing bases is a very complex issue. Some of the contributing factors is the learning ability, resilience, agility and resourcefullness of all the animals that gets listed as problem animals. This accolade, though it has its negative side, can only attained by a few species and it is to be expected that an animals that measure up to the title are special animals. These animal were able to withstand the full onslaught from a group of people reknowed for there resourcefulness for centuaries and are still doing well. They are also adaptable to the human modified environment and are able to take over the niches of various other animals when those animals are no longer able to survive in the newly created environmental conditions. Therefore the over simplified views of the Greens and even general public on how to stop the damage does not measure up to reality. We will only be able to reliably deal with these issues after in depth investigation and understanding of this complexity.

It therefore astounds me when armchair "conservationists" or folks with no biological training or background visiting the Kruger park annually feel that they are qualified to prescribe to professional biologists how biological issuses should be solved. This was realized by Aldo Leopold, long before his death in 1948, when he wrote: "Conservation is paved with good intentions which proved futile, or even dangerous, because they are devoid of critical understanding either of the land, or economic land use."  He also wrote "The urge to comprehend must precede the urge to reform."

Some abuse happens from the landowner's side but the vast majority of landowners are normal, decent people trying to make a living and protecting their life's investment. When real abuse does happen those responsible should be presecuted to the full extent of the law.

THE RIGHT/DUTY TO PROTECT LIVESTOCK

Even as businessman or ordinary salary earner cannot allow their earnings to be eroded in any way, without doing something about it. A person in the agricultural business has the same rights, duties and responsiblities. And duty there is: seeing livestock been torn apart by predators because they have been bred to be docile, and not intervening is unexceptable. I am not going into the justification for production of livestock. This industry is here to stay even though some vegetarians/Vegans wants to tell us otherwise. Therefore protection of livestock has to happen.

One of the purposes of this website is to give guidance into this process. We must not be cruel or apathetic towards the aniamls causing damage, and when we have to kill them it has to be done with compassion. The use of non-lethal methods should always be considered, but with our still imperfect damage control methods this is not always possible.

PERMANENT PREVENTION LEADS TO ERADICATION OF THE PREDATOR

Practical experience has proven that non lethal preventative measures does not give permanent relief of damage. This can only be achieved by rediculously expenive fortification of the comdity to be protected. The animals invariably will overcome abstacles in time. Therefore the only permanent prevention is by eradication of the offending species. Producers would usually except low damage as long as they have a reliable method by which to lessen or stop the damage. When no reliable way exists to stop damage by an animal the efforts to stop the damage become more severe and abuse may result.

JACKAL CAN NOT BE ERADICATED

As shown under the brief discussion of the history of damage control, jackal can absorb enormous losses to their numbers and still maintain a presence and keep causing damage. The machanism by which this is done has been worked out and is very important in the proper management of the species. The first reaction by which an area that has been cleared of jackal is repopulated is by the young dispersing individuals that quickly settle in open real estate. In this way a cleared farm may have the same numbers, or even higher than before the control, in about a months time. Secondly a more complicated reaction takes place. Once the numbers are depressed below a threshold value, the population react by:

Younger animals breed. In undesturbed populations very few one and two year old jackal would breed (though jackal are capable of becoming pregnant at 10 monts of age. Only territorial animals breed and the older jackal occupy all the available space. Young animals have to disperse  untill they find an area that is available because of the death of the former resident. When lots of the territorial animals are killed, lots of the young ones settle. This means that a higher proportion of the population would breed  in the next breeding season.
The average litter size increase form average 4 to average between 7 & 8. 
Because of more resources available due to the lower number of jackal the survival of the jackal increase.
These three factors work so strongly that simulation models for coyote (the VERY similar cousin of the jackal from America) predict that at 70% reduction per annum, the population would not be eradicated. So, sure, we would be able to eradicate the jackal if we are willing to invest the time and resources, but it will be prohibitively expensive and labour intensive. If we rather except that we will have to keep dealing with this problem, we can properly plan this action over the long term.

NOT ALL JACKAL CATCHES SHEEP

The concept of prey preference is well known and excepted among larger predators. One lion pride prefers zebra, while another pride would walk through the zebra to get hold of their favoured wildebeest. Te same phenomenon hold true for the jackal. Many live among sheep but never catch any.
Some jackal prefer to scavenge and others prefer to capture live prey.
Young, dispersing jackal do not have the confidence or skill to kill livestock. They survive on insects, carrion an plant foods.
When ordinary poisoned bait targets the scavenging sector of the population we are heading in the wrong direction - When pheromonal bait on a coyote getter give us an even chance to get the culprit we are getting there -                  When poison collars kill only damage causing individuals we are making tremendous progress.

THE GREAT MAJORITY OF DAMAGE TO SHEEP COMES FROM TERRITORIAL JACKAL

One of the tragedies of the South African problem animal situation has been the lack of attention and money to do proper applied researchand thereby keep on bettering our control. Therefore we are dependant on research done on similar overseas species and the adapting/converting the findings to our animal & situation. Fortunately there are people with enough practical experience with the animals to make an informed judgement on the similarities.

One very significant finding of this kind is that at least 90% of damage done come from territorial animals and happen inside the territorium. If those animals are targeted the result is amazing. By killing only a third as many jackal as previously, the results at least equal, or are even better, than blanket control on all jackal in the area, and the interval between damage occurances becomes wider. When this newfound knowledge is applied by someone with the necessary field knowledge to target territorial animals the results is spectacular. For the same amount of work the results overshadow the methods that were used before. However the knowledge and skill of a much hogher standard is needed to apply this trapping program. Some of the reasons for this is briefly discussed below.

PREDATORS CANNOT EASILY BE TRAPPED INSIDE THEIR TERRITORIES

Automatic cameras installed inside the territories of radio-collard coyotes fail to photograph the residents. This happens because the coyotes know their territories intimately and are acutely aware of any changes or additions inside this area. They would know when and where humans set up stuff and because this usually means danger to them this stuff is simply avoided. The sense of these animals are sharp enough, and can distinguish different components of smells - they can smell the componant of human smell even from under the disguise of rotten bait. Black-backed jackal have been observed avoiding any strange/ new object in their territories - a term have even been coined to describe this phenomenon - neophobia. The definition is the fear of unfamiliar objects in familiar surroundings.

PREDATOR'S REMARKABLE LEARNING ABILITY

This is particularly true of the predators that are branded as problem animals. Jackal targeted with poison bait to depress their numbers to control rabies quickly learnt to avoid scaneging warthog meat, because that was the most commonly used source of meat for baits. In an area where coyote getters have never been used before jackal showed a 93% avoidance at the third control campaign. They even teach their pups to avoid stuff that they have exprienced as dangerous. Contributing to this learning ability is the fact that jackal forage in pairs. When one gets killed by a new device the other will avoid it at all cost. A captive jackal would not enter a cage trap, baited with fresh chiken meat, even after 8  days of starvation. The role of this aspect on the difficulty of capture of jackal individuals cannot be overstressed in a species know for its wide dietry utilization. Jackal consider numerous items including all kinds of animal, insect and plants as food and when even the prefered item is suspect will revert to other sources. Calling (jackal & prey distress sounds) has taken off as control method and is used by a number of operators as their sole source of income. These people rarely go back to a place that they hunted before, becaue it is well known that within two or three calling sessions the animals also resist this method and do not respond anymore.

SUSCEPTABILITY ON TERRITORIAL BOUNDARIES

The only place where territorial jackal are reasonably vulnerable to control is on their territorial boundaries. They visit this area less and does not know it as intimately as the core areas. If they do not ustilize the food that they get there, the neighbor will take it. So they take chances that won't be taken inside the territorium.

VARIATION CONTROL METHODS

Because of the leaning ability of these animals it is important to use as wide a variety of control methods as possible. Operators that promote shooting or poison pastes or leghold traps as the method that will solve the problem and then invest heavily in the chosen direction all lack depth to eventually solve problems in the long term. When an animal learns from the death of its partner only a different method will elliminate that animal. Any operator therefore, that wants to actually solve problems must have a variation of methods that they master.

LETHAL OR NON-LETHAL

The Greens often promote non-lethal damge control at all cost. This often does not make sense in practical and biodiverse sense (see FENCE below). We need lots of facts and science and as little emotion as possible to make the best decisions. By over-emphasizing prevention of killing of individual animals the result often cause much more serious interference and problems to whole populations of animals. When conflict exists, it has to be tended to and stopping this process leads to frustration that may lead to even worse action against the animals. When a person knows there is an effective solution to his problem (by a certain species) he will be more tolerant to the presence of individuals that are not causing problems, however when there is no such solution he becomes desperate and will do things that he would not do normally. As an example the American Endangered Species Act prohibits the killing of an endangered species by anybody, under any circumstance - even by nature conservation officials. This caused huge political uproar and prevented the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone and other Parks for decades. The relaxation of that law allowing for the removal of repeat offending wolves was necessary before reintroductions could start.

Rational screening of all the possible options by knowledgeble people will reveal the best option for each situation. Compassion for the animals has to be part of each decision. When killing is necessary it has to be done quick and without suffering to the animal. Capture, handling, translocation all causes much more stress than the killing will to any animal. Translocating animals and mixing of subspecies, or even ecotypes are extremely damaging to biodiversity and much more harm than good is the result.

Translocating a damage causing individual often only means translocting the problem - and causing more negative feelings towards the species. The worst part is that most pressure comes from people with no biological knowledge.

FENCE - PROs & CONs

As an example the Greens would often demand a "propper fence" that would prevent the problem animal from reaching the commodity that is to be protected. So what does a "propper fence" in terms of prevention of jackal damage mean? Jackalproof fencing span more than 15 000km of the Karroo. And it is not very effective.

Erecting a new jackalproof fence entails establishing an basic fence. Even if the bottom is diamond mesh this does not jackalproof the fence. The enormous task then start to actually "proof" the fence. All spaces that may allow access to a jackal (and jackal can squeeze through incredibly small spaces) has to be covered. The extra man hours and material needed for this double, or even treble the cost. And then the maintanance starts.

Even the best erected fenced can be breached in a single night by the jackal, porcupine of warthog and thereby negate its eficiency. If not repaired immediately all the cost and sweat will be in vain. Thus a patrolman/repairman (or two or three - depending on the length of the fence) has to be employed. Making it one of the most expensive damage control devices available. We still have to mention that all jackal INSIDE the fenced area has to be killed to make any sense out of the operation. All jackal that ever manage to break in also has to be taken out. The killing thus has not been stopped by the fence. As if this is not enough: A jackal proof fence happens to be proof to most other animals in the same area. All of these animals are cut off from potential breeding partners, food, water, shelter and what ever else. It plays havoc with biodiversity.

The only situation where jackalproof fencing actually has positive attributes is in small lambing/calving camps close to houses, where livestock can get over the most vulnerable peroid of their lives under the watchfull eyes of whomever is tending then.

NEED TO PROFESSIONALIZE ADC

After this deliberation is should be clear that we urgently need to professionalize the ADC workfield in South Africa. The USA, Australia, New Zealand and Europe all have numerous researchers and trained ADC operators that are able to render professional assistance in solving human/animal conflicts. Many of them civil servants rendering a service both to Nature Conservation and to producers. In South Africa these issues are sadly neglected and our biodiversity and our producers are loosing out. unquote

groete
              britsman

[LMB]

Wat wil jy h? moet ons s?. Hierdie is feite wat meestal bewys is. As jy die storie agterstevoor lees sal jy lees "MAAK VREK"

Dit is deels hoekom ek s? die "navorsers" wat op hul eie werk, moet hul eie agendas los en die geld aanwend om gesamentlik aan deursigtige navorsing te werk. Die werklike belangrike kwessies eerste.
Dit is ons probleem en ons sal hom self moet aanspreek. As die Dept landbou na 2 jaar nog nie betrokke geraak het, sal hulle mos nooit, tensy ons begin klippe gooi.

Groete
Lukas

[britsman]

Lucas,
        As ek die concept verstaan moet jy die Alpha's uitvat --- dan sal die jonges hongerlei, en baie vinnig inkom as 'n hasie begin skree.
bm

[Ambessa]

Hallo Jaracal

Kyk my epos.

Ambessa

[jaracal]

Ambessa
Stuur asb weer.

Heinrich

[Christo]

Nee man ouens, sit die goed op band sodat ons daarna kan luister. My o? trek skoon skeef van die baie lees, hulle is meer gewoont aan 'n sirkel met 'n kruis in wat lekker stil staan.

REGTIG - TAPE DIE GOED SEBLIEF