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Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:17 am
by Carl
30-06 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:06 am Dit is nogal eienaardig dat ons nog niks van SA Jag gehoor het nie.
Jou tak moet vir jou inligting aanstuur. Ons kry al die stemboodskappe van Fred via Whatsap. Hy het ook gesels op RSG vanoggend.

Die klomp wat daar staan en waffel se woorde beteken niks tot die Regulasies gepubliseer is nie.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:34 am
by tau
andre007 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:02 am Hallo julle. Ek is Takvoorsitter van die Stormbergtak van SAJWV. Ek en my mede takbestuur kry weekliks tonne navrae oor wat ons hier bespreek. My advies aan lede is om te wag tot die informasie in persverklarings bekragtig en ge 'gazette' is. Tot en met dan is persverklarings en sosiale media bloot bespiegelings en gaan geen waarde in n padblokade dra nie.

Ons het bv met die opening van skole gesien hoe Govt hulle deuntjie kan verander, selfs na dit ge 'gazette' is. Ek wil asb nie hierop aangehaal word nie want ek is nie deel van die rolspelers wat die 'calls' maak nie, maar n besorgde persoon wat nie wil hê dat een van my lede of vriende in warmwater gaan sit nie.

Ek weet van n spul jagters wat al loodgooi van vlak 4, party het daarmee weggekom en ongelukkig het 2 waarvan ek weet n naweek in die selle spandeer. Self nou in vlak 3 waarin jag veronderstel is om oop te wees was daar 2 gevalle waar manne n harde tyd in n padblokade gekry het.

Ek het gister vir iemand gesê dat ek die volgende sal saam met my vat as ek moet gaan jag.

Voor ek vertrek, kry die jagplaas se CIPC permit, pryslys en n amptelikke uitnodiging van hom waarin hy my nooi om te kom jag, met gespesifiseerde datums en wie almal in my jagparty is (bv dis nou vir my en my seun), volwassenes behoort elk hulle eie stel dokumente te hê:
Die Gazette wat bevestig dat jag toegelaat is
Nuutste Jagproklamasie (by ons is die 2020 prok nognie uit nie en die 2019 prok is van toepassing)
Spesie-spesifieke jagpermitte indien van toepassing
Jagliksensie
Vuurwapenliksensie
I D Boek
Oppad terug weer al die bg met toestemming om te jag/verwyderingspermitte, by ons soek die persoon wie die vleis verwerk ook n kopie hiervan.

Ek stel voor dat kopiee ook gesertifiseer word waar moontlik.

Ek het nie al die antwoorde nie maar ek glo met die bg gaan n man se 'saak' meer waterdra
Dankie

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:36 pm
by VictorG
Mag 2 persone voor in n bakkie met 2 sitplekke sit , om te gaan jag ,onder vlak 3 ?

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:34 pm
by PWV
VictorG wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:36 pm Mag 2 persone voor in n bakkie met 2 sitplekke sit , om te gaan jag ,onder vlak 3 ?
Nee, net die hond. :)

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:25 am
by 30-06
Die regulasie is uit. Verstaan nie hoekom Jagtersvereniging nog niks gese het nie. Regulasie is al gisteraand op ander draad geplaas.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:48 am
by andre007
Manne, ek verwyder my plasing, Victor het vir ons die skakel onderaan geplaas.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:50 am
by andre007
andre007 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:48 am Regulation Gazette No. 10177 Regulasiekoerant
N.B. The Government Printing Works will
not be held responsible for the quality of
“Hard Copies” or “Electronic Files”
submitted for publication purposes
AIDS HELPLINE: 0800-0123-22 Prevention is the cure
Government Gazette
Staatskoerant REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
REPUBLIEK VAN SUID AFRIKA
Vol. 660 5
June
Junie 2020 No. 43409
9 7 7 1 6 8 2 5 8 4 0 0 3
ISSN 1682-5843
43409
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
2 No. 43409 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 5 JUNE 2020
Government Notices • Goewermentskennisgewings
Environment, Forestry And Fisheries, Department of/ Omgewing, Bosbou en Visserye, Departement van
647 Disaster Management Act (57/2002): Directions Regarding Measures to Address, Prevent and Combat the Spread
of COVID-19 Relating to the Biodiversity Sector....................................................................................................... 43409 3
Page
No.
Gazette
No. No.
Contents
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
The GovernmenT PrinTinG Works Will noT be held resPonsible for any errors
ThaT miGhT occur due To The submission of incomPleTe / incorrecT / illeGible coPy.
no fuTure queries Will be handled in connecTion WiTh The above.
DIRECTIONS REGARDING MEASURES TO ADDRESS, PREVENT AND COMBAT THE SPREAD OF
COVID19 RELATING TO THE BIODIVERSITY SECTOR
I, Barbara Dallas Creecy, Minister of Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment hereby issue the Directions
set out in the Schedule in terms of regulation 4(10) of the Regulations issued by the Minister of Cooperative
Governance and Tradition& Affairs in terms of section 27(2) of the Disaster Management Act,
2002 (Act No. 57 of 2002) and published on 29 April 2020 in Government Notice No. R. 480 of
Government Gazette No. 43258.
04f2.---%------1
BARBARA DALLAS CREECY
MINISTER OF FORESTRY, FISHERIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
STAATSKOERANT, 5 JUNIE 2020 No. 43409 3
Government Notices • Goewermentskennisgewings
Environment, Forestry And Fisheries, Department of/ Omgewing, Bosbou en Visserye, Departement van
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
NO. 647 05 JUNE 2020
647 Disaster Management Act (57/2002): Directions Regarding Measures to Address, Prevent and Combat the Spread of COVID-19 Relating to the Biodiversity Sector 43409
SCHEDULE
1. Definitions
In these Directions, any word or expression to which a meaning has been assigned in the
Regulations, the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, the TOPS Regulations,
the CITES Regulations, the AIS Regulations, the BABS Amendment Regulations and applicable
provincial conservation legislation, bears the meaning so assigned and, unless the context
otherwise indicates -
"AIS Regulations" means the Alien and Invasive Species Regulations issued In terms of section
97(1) of the, National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act and published on 1 August
2014 in Government Notice No. R. 598 of Government Gazette No. 37885;
"applicable provincial conservation legislation" means any Provincial Act, Ordinance or
Decree that regulates biodiversity conservation matters;
"BABS Amendment Regulations" means the Bio-Prospecting, Access and Benefit Sharing
Amendment Regulations issued in terms of section 97(1) of the National Environmental
Management:. Biodiversity Act and published on 19 May 2015 in Government Notice No. R. 447
of Government Gazette No. 38809;
"CITES Regulations" means the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of
Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) Regulations issued in terms of section 97(1) of the National
Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act and published on 5 March 2010 in Government
Notice No. R.173 of Government Gazette No. 33002;
"Disaster Management Act" means the the Disaster Management Act, 2002 (Act No. 57 of
2002);
"National Environmental Management: Biodlversity Act" means the National Environmental
Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No. 10 of 2004);
"Regulations" means the Regulations issued in terms of section 27(2) of the Disaster
Management Act and published on 29 April 2020 in Government Notice No. R.480 of
Government Gazette No. 43258;
"subsistence hunting" means hunting for the primary purpose of the hunter acquiring game
meat for food security; and
"TOPS Regulations" means the Threatened or Protected Species Regulations issued in terms
of section 97(1) of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act and published on
23 February 2007 in Government Notice No. R. 52 of Government Gazette No. 29657
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
4 No. 43409 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 5 JUNE 2020
2. Purpose
The purpose of these Directions is to:
(a) ensure fair processes relating to permits, registrations, and Certificates during Alert Level
3; and
(b) provide direction in respect of the carrying out of certain activities by the biodiversity
sector in ternis of the National Environmental Management Biodiversity Act, the National
Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No. 57 of 2003) and any
applicable provincial conservation legislation during Alert Level 3.
3. Application
3.1 These Directions apply to-
(a) issuing authorities who are responsible for the processes listed in paragraphs 4, 5 and
6; and
(b) all applicants and holders of permits, registrations, and certificates related to the matters
dealt with in paragraphs 4, 5 and 6.
3.2 Where any issuing authority affected by these Directions has publicly indicated that a different
arrangement applies, in respect of paragraphs 4, 5 and 6, such an arrangement will prevail over
any arrangement indicated in these Directions.
4. Extension of timeframes
4.1 The timeframes of permits, registrations and certificates that have expired during the period of
lockdown and Alert Level 4 are hereby extended, or will be deemed to be extended, for a period
of 30 working days from the date of publication of these Directions. Holders of these permits,
registrations and certificates must apply to the relevant issuing authorities for renewal of such
permits, registrations and certificates within 10 working days of publication of these Directions.
4.2 The timeframes of permits, registrations and certificates that have expired during Alert Level 3,
or which will expire during Alert Level 3, are hereby extended, or will be deemed to be extended,
for a period of 30 working days after the end of Alert Level 3. Holders of these permits,
registrations and certificates must apply to the relevant issuing authorities for renewal of such
permits, registrations and certificates within 10 working days after the end of Alert Level 3.
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
STAATSKOERANT, 5 JUNIE 2020 No. 43409 5
5. Applications for and Issuing of permits, registrations and certificates
5.1 Any activity carried out during Alert Level 3 involving biodiversily resources, which requires a
permit, registration or certificate in terms of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity
Act or any applicable provincial conservation legislation, must be carried out in terms of such a
permit, registration or certificate.
5.2 Persons must submit applications for permits, registrations and certificates during Alert Level 3
in the manner as set out in Annexure 1 to these Directions.
5.3 Issuing authorities will receive and process applications, and issue permits, registrations and
certificates during Alert Level 3, as set out in Annexure 1 to these Directions, unless publicly
stated otherwise.
5.4 Applications referred to in subparagraph 5.2 apply to permits, registrations and certificates
required in terms of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, or any applicable
provincial conservation legislation.
6. Activities
6.1 All activities that were permitted with restrictions as contained in the Directions regarding
Measures to Address, Prevent and Combat the Spread of COVID 19 related to the Biodiversity
Sector, published in Government Notice No. 537 in Government Gazette No. 43323 of 14 May
2020, as amended by Government Notice No. 596 in Government Gazette No 43355 of 26 May
2020, are regarded to be permitted activities with no restrictions under these Directions, unless
otherwise indicated in these Directions.
6.2 The provisions of these Directions apply to only those specimens of species that are regulated
in terms of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act or in terms of applicable
provincial conservation legislation.
6.3 Culling and subsistence hunting are permissible.
6.4 Moving, conveying or otherwise translocating of live or dead specimens or products is
permissible, including across district, metro or provincial borders, subject to the permit required
by the Regulations.
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
6 No. 43409 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 5 JUNE 2020
I
I
6.5 Wildlife auctions are permissible in accordance with the Directions regarding Measures to
Address, Prevent and Combat the Spread of COVID 19 related to the Biodiversity Sector,
published in Government Notice No. 537 in Government Gazette No. 43323 of 14 May 2020, as
amended by Government Notice No. 596 in Government Gazette No 43355 of 26 May 2020 for
Alert Level 4.
6.6 Live or dead specimens or products may be imported into, or exported from the Republic of South
Africa, subject to phytosanitary or animal health requirements, and subject to any applicable
Directions issued by the Cabinet member responsible for Trade, Industry and Competition.
6.7 Persons may apply for new registrations, or for the inclusion of new species to, existing permits
and registrations.
6.8 All bioprospecting and biotrade activities may continue.
6.9 Professional hunting:
(a)
(b)
The conducting of professional hunting courses may continue; and
Persons who will not be able to meet the requirements for the renewal of permits to
operate as professional hunters and hunting outfitters, will nevertheless be able to renew
such permits during or immediately after the national state of disaster, as a once -off
waiver of such requirements.
7 Commencement and duration
These Directions come into effect on the date of publication in the Government Gazette, and will
apply during Alert Level 3.
This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
STAATSKOERANT, 5 JUNIE 2020 No. 43409 7
Daarsy manne, die dokument waarvoor ons gewag het. Die file is ongelukkig te groot om te laai. Iemand kan dalk die link na die Gazette vir ons laai.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:08 am
by VictorG

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:23 am
by knipmes
Ek wil net duidelikheid kry: Gazette: Par 6.3 Culling and subsistence hunting is permissible, en 6.4 Moving, conveyingor otherwise translocating of live or dead specimens or products is permissible, including across district, metro or provincial borders, subject tot he permit required by the Regulations.
Die Bylae handel dan hoofsaaklik oor TOPS en Cites permitte. Daar word nie gepraat van verblyf, brief van plaas eienaar ens nie.
Kan iemand wat meer inligting het miskien duidelikheid gee ?

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:42 am
by Fanta300
Die nuwe Gazette met al die reëls is blykbaar uit. SAJagters het brief uitgestuur maar ek sien ook nog niks. Lyk my geduld is maar die wagwoord.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:06 pm
by andre007
Fanta300 wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:42 am Die nuwe Gazette met al die reëls is blykbaar uit. SAJagters het brief uitgestuur maar ek sien ook nog niks. Lyk my geduld is maar die wagwoord.
"Dear members of SA Hunters
Regulations for Level 3 of Covid-19 Lockdown: Hunting
Following the various media releases issued during the last week, the official regulations for hunting during level 3 of the Covid-19 lockdown have been published by the Department of the Environment, Forestry and Fisheries (DEFF) on Friday, 5 June. Click here.
In term of the regulations, subsistence hunting, of which the primary aim is to obtain meat for personal consumption, is allowed.
According to regulation 33(4) hunting is a wildlife management service and hunters may travel across district, metro, and provincial borders to the hunting destination subject to health protocols in terms of the number of persons per vehicle and the wearing of masks in public. The landowner must issue a permit to each person travelling for this purpose. Click here
The hunter must obtain the necessary provincial permits as promulgated by each province. Read here for more information in this regard.
The hunter may only overnight at the hunting destination.
The landowner of the hunting farm is responsible to maintain health and safety protocols as required in the regulations, e.g. monitoring of visitors and staff; providing disinfectants; and ensuring the proper cleaning of facilities between hunts. See example of proposed control measures here.
The hunter may transport the game meat from the hunting destination to his/her home with the necessary transport permits. Click here. Please note that certain provinces require special permits for the transport of wild pig meat (warthog, bush pig). Landowners registered on the SA Hunters’ online system or the local state veterinarian may issue wild pig permits. Read more here
Members can download the attached documents and print as required.
Enjoy the best new this year so far. Remember, sustainable use is conservation.
Happy hunting"
Boetie Kirchner
Manager Hunting Affairs

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:11 pm
by andre007
Vir die wat belangstel, ek het hierdie op ons Tak se webtuiste geplaas om n paar moontlikke tips te gee http://www.stormbergjagters.co.za/befor ... dre-botha/ Hoop dit help iemand.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:01 pm
by PWV
Verkry uit "Game & Hunt (Wild & Jag):


LEVEL 3 - SUBSISTANCE HUNTING ALLOWED - The latest
The definition HUNTING FOR THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE HUNTER ACQUIRING GAME MEAT FOR FOOD SECURITY was included in the 05 June Biodiversity Directions published in the Government Gazette (No. 43409, Note 660) by the Department Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment, and signed by Minister Barbara Creecy.

The directions published on Friday, if read with the guidelines as confirmed via email by the national Department of Environmental Affairs on Thursday 04 June to WILDLIFE RANCHING SOUTH AFRICA, in short means the following is allowed:

Hunting for the primary aim of obtaining meat (game meat) for personal consumption. (subsistence hunting – “biltong jag”)
Interprovincial traveling to the hunting destination
Overnight stay in the on-site hunting camp
The only additional permit needed is a permit to perform a permitted service/activity in terms of Regulation 33(4)(a) of the Disaster Management Act Regulations of 28 May 2020 (Gazette No. 43363, Notice No. 608). If you are a member of a hunting and or sport shooting association, or a wildlife or agricultural association, your association will be able to supply you with such a permit. If you are not a member of such an association, you can get the permit as an annexure on the Government Gazette No. 43363, Notice No. 608 dated 28 May 2020.

This permit must be completed by the land owner where you are going to hunt, and is not completed by government or your hunting and or sport shooting association, or wildlife or agricultural association.

All other permits needed are the standard permits a hunter needs to hunt. Once again, if you are a member of a hunting and or sport shooting association, your association will be able to supply you the relevant information of which permits are needed for each different province.

You would either need:

a provincial hunting license issued by a province, or a permission to hunt form issued by the landowner where you are hunting, that needs to be carried on your person at all times during the hunt.
when transporting your game meat or carcasses, a permission to transport game meat, issued by the landowner.
for transporting warthog and bush pig meat or carcasses from, through or to Gauteng, Limpopo, North West, Mpumalanga and KZN, the landowner must issue a permit from an official permit book.
Keep the following in mind:

when traveling, private vehicles may not carry more than 60% of the licensed capacity, thus for a passenger vehicle or a double cab bakkie, only 3 persons.
hunters and landowners must comply with all lockdown related legislation in terms of health, safety and legal requirements
hunters and landowners must comply with all applicable national and provincial legislation in terms of the National Environmental Management Biodiversity Act.
Be accountable and make sure you confirm or get the correct information and permits from your hunting association and the land owner where you will be hunting. If you are not a member of a hunting association, please do not copy official branded permits from a hunting association. By doing that, you are not a hunter, you are a poacher!!!!

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:12 am
by Johan Nel
DV Woensdag die 10de ry ons Limpopo, Venetia myn omgewing toe vir ons jaarlikse jag. Ons is nou besig om al die permitte te finaliseer.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:22 am
by JohanvB
Smaak my van julle wil nie gaan jag nie

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:11 pm
by tau
is iemand nou al uit Weskaap met die permitte?

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:42 pm
by Gawie(13mm)
tau wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:11 pm is iemand nou al uit Weskaap met die permitte?
Oom Pieter sal jou oor twee weet laat weet of hy jag en of hy weer agter tralies is!! :laugh: Daai is nou 'n kort storie met 'n lang aanloop. ^-^

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:36 pm
by Nico de Jager
Tau, ek het uit die Weskaap in die Oos-Kaap gaan jag. Ons was sewe man. Ons het Sondag, 31 Mei (maw nog vlak 4) gery en Woensdag 3 Junie terug gekom.
Die plaaseienaar het ons n permit uigereik dat ons kom cull en die slaghuise wat die manne se wild bewerk het vir hulle een gegee.
Ons is deur die padblokkade by Willomore en die polisie het ons permitte gevra. ons is "ge Covid" en ons kon ry.
Terug was dieselfde.
Groete

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:17 pm
by PWV
Gawie(13mm) wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:42 pm
tau wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:11 pm is iemand nou al uit Weskaap met die permitte?
Oom Pieter sal jou oor twee weet laat weet of hy jag en of hy weer agter tralies is!! :laugh: Daai is nou 'n kort storie met 'n lang aanloop. ^-^
Dis nou 'n ware vriend wat my cowboy-dae se eskapades so uitlap!! >:D

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:23 pm
by andre007
Fred Camphor - HUB SAJWV gaan more oggend n ZOOM sessie hê - 05:30, kanaal 144, onder bespreking sal jag in lockdown vlak 3 wees en n moontlikke nuwe amnesteie

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:33 pm
by Johan Nel
Manne ons het 'n uiters suksesvolle en heerlike bosveldjag kon deurvoer. Ons het Woensdag in die vroeë oggendure uit Hazyview vertrek en so agtuur op ons bestemming aangekom tussen All Days & Messina. Ons het vanmiddag so drie uur weer ingeklok op Hazyview. Ek is nou weer tuis in Nelspruit. Ons was vier jagters.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:55 pm
by Fanta300
Nou net van SA Jagters ontvang:

Beste Lid,

Ons het die onderstaande boodskap rakende die oor distrik, metro of provinsiale grens reis vir jagdoeleindes van omgewingsake af ontvang. Ons vra dat u daarop ag sal slaan en met omsigtigheid op te tree. Ons sal u verwittig van enige verwikkelinge.


"Soos u weet, is daar vir COVID-inperkingsvlak 3 verskillende interpretasies vir die bestaansjag as wildbestuursdiens.



Dept Omgewingsake is versoek om aan die publiek te kommunikeer dat bestaansjag deur die NATJOINTS-strukture as 'n ontspanningsaktiwiteit beskou word, en dat persone dus nie toegelaat word om oor die distrik, metro of provinsiale grens te reis nie.



Die SAPD by NATJOINTS het aangedui dat hulle persone sal vra om terug te keer as hulle by provinsiale grense gestop word. Hierdie versoek is tot ministeriële vlak verhef om op politieke vlak besleg te word.



Ek kan u ongelukkig nie 'n aanduiding gee van die uitslag van hierdie besprekings nie, en ons wag op instruksies oor die pad vorentoe rakende bestaansjag tydens inperkingsvlak 3.



Op die stadium kan ek u nie raad gee oor watter advies u aan u lede moet gee nie, maar dit kan veiliger wees om nie nuwe besprekings te maak voordat ons duidelike instruksies het oor die pad vorentoe nie. Let ook daarop dat vrouens en kinders wat hul mans vergesel wat gaan jag, nie as jagters beskou word nie .... dit sal uiters moeilik wees om te motiveer waarom hulle oor provinsiale grense reis.



Dit maak dit ook baie maklik om te regverdig hoekom bestaansjag, ondanks die bedoeling daarvan, 'n ontspanningsaktiwiteit is. As persone steeds kies om te jag, moet hulle dit met diskresie doen."

Jagters Groete

Dit maak vir alle praktiese doeleindes die deur toe vir ons Pot jagters. Waar kan ek gaan jag in my eie distrik/metro. Hier is nie eers ‘n dieretuin nie. Dit is teenstrydig met wat in die regulasies staan.

Re: Ons mag jag in fase 3

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:12 pm
by NicoSmit
Tipies van die @#$$%$ regering sê eendag so en volgende dag weer anders maak my nou regtig gatvol .