JARACAL

Capt. Yoda wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:25 am

treeman wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:33 am

tripodmvr wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:06 am Dont let the long leade make you despondent. It is cut to accommodate a 215gr bullet. a long jump does not point to poor precision and many European rifles with long leades shoot MOA without a problem.

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Why have a chamber that can accommodate that length of bullet but the magazine only allows a bullet of 78 mm ?

My 30.06 can take a round with an OAL of 92mm in the magazine (215gr Hybrid) but it will also shoot a 125gr ballistic tip with a OAL of around 84mm into very small groups, don't sweat the jump to much

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I am not concerned with the jump, I am asking why would a chamber be issue cut with a lead for a bullet seating that far exceeds the mag length. If one were to seat a bullet making use of the generous lead provided, the mag length will be used up long before the bullet reached even normally considered a long way off. So why bother with the crazy chamber lead ?

While typing I thought it may very well have to do with military specs for dirt and so forth.

treeman wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 8:01 am

Capt. Yoda wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:25 am

treeman wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:33 am
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Why have a chamber that can accommodate that length of bullet but the magazine only allows a bullet of 78 mm ?

My 30.06 can take a round with an OAL of 92mm in the magazine (215gr Hybrid) but it will also shoot a 125gr ballistic tip with a OAL of around 84mm into very small groups, don't sweat the jump to much

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I am not concerned with the jump, I am asking why would a chamber be issue cut with a lead for a bullet seating that far exceeds the mag length. If one were to seat a bullet making use of the generous lead provided, the mag length will be used up long before the bullet reached even normally considered a long way off. So why bother with the crazy chamber lead ?

While typing I thought it may very well have to do with military specs for dirt and so forth.

Not all rifle manufacturers will have the same magazine length but they will (in most cases) use a Saami spec reamer to cut the chamber, the reamer determines the lead the magazine is determined by the manufacturer.

Big jump should help with pressure and not keeping up with cleaning and maintenance as well and that might have something to do with the long lead with military style rifles like the old 303

The Lee and the P14 were designed as military arms. The Epps part was an afterthought and so the magazine stayed as it was. The same happens normally if a rifle is AI converted.

We all think that bullets have to have a spitzer shape. This is true for most newer cartridges. The older European cartridges were designed to use round nose bullets.That is why the more traditional European chambers have a long leade; to fit said round nose bullets. They have no freebore as we know it and leades that can be as short as 8mm for the 7mm Mauser or 34mm like the 7x64 Breneke. Even the Lee-Enfield originally used a 220gr round nose. A leade cut for a heavy round nose bullet will give a particularly long jump for a spitser type ogive.

Have a look at the chamber drawings for the 6.5x55, 8mm Mauser, 9.3x62, 7x64 Breneke.

Makes sense, thank you.

So ! I keep hearing about fireforming the Epps case and then neck sizing after that.
I have met plenty of folk that tell me about this process.
So !
Bought a .303 neck sizing die and it can not get over the Epps newly formed shoulder, so it can not even reach the neck to size it.
Next, that thing like you do on other cases where you partial neck size the case, no can do, the Epps die starts case forming long before it gets to the neck of the case.

Now - what now? I have heard talk of using a standard .308 die to neck size the Epps case. Question now is whether it sizes to .308 neck needs or does that get determined by the expander ball.
I assume you use a .308 die with the expander ball swapped out ?

Even my Gunshop guy explained how you use a 303 neck sizing die, just stories from people who want to appear in the know.
I even bought a collet die, surely it would work only the neck ? ___________________nope, it crush's the Epps shoulders - yes, no mater how you set it up.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... ing-brass/

https://youtu.be/FpFF991NNbs

Know how to use Lee Collet Neck Die.

Met komplimente.

Beste.

Lategan1 wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:12 pm https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... ing-brass/
https://youtu.be/FpFF991NNbs
Know how to use Lee Collet Neck Die.
Met komplimente.
Beste.

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The Lee Collet die works for the 303 Brit, the Epps shoulders do not allow it to work - no matter how you set it up.
I have figured a gypo move though using spacers.

I do know of a gunsmith in Centurion that makes dies according to your gun's chamber. Unfortunately I lost his name and number, but if you contact Nobleteq they will give it to you, the guy is just around the corner from them. A bit pricier than standard dies, but then you can be sure it fits your need.

bit pricier, last time we looked at custom die it was R15000
But thanks any way buddy.

treeman wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:09 pm bit pricier, last time we looked at custom die it was R15000
But thanks any way buddy.

Jurgen Nezar 082 748 8241

Custom DIEs uit Amerika wat met doppe gemaak word wat in jou geweer geskiet is sal minder as die helfde van daai R15 000 wees. Iemand wou jou vir n ride vat

Capt. Yoda wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:14 am

treeman wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:09 pm bit pricier, last time we looked at custom die it was R15000
But thanks any way buddy.

Jurgen Nezar 082 748 8241
Custom DIEs uit Amerika wat met doppe gemaak word wat in jou geweer geskiet is sal minder as die helfde van daai R15 000 wees. Iemand wou jou vir n ride vat

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I will look into this.
I have a gunsmith friend who is also a high level compo shooter, had special dies made for some wildcat or rarity and that's what he said he paid.
I will how ever look into this further.
THANK YOU

treeman wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 10:09 pm bit pricier, last time we looked at custom die it was R15000
But thanks any way buddy.

That's not what I was quoted, it was about R3500 if I remember correctly.

Wat is nou die antwoord van die manne wat 303 epps laai? Kan n mens n 303 epps necksize met n 303 brit collet die of nie?


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Kabel wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:01 pm Wat is nou die antwoord van die manne wat 303 epps laai? Kan n mens n 303 epps necksize met n 303 brit collet die of nie?
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Nee jy kan nie.
The shoulders of the Epps case are destroyed long before neck sizing takes place.

Nou die dag weer met iemand gesels oor die 303 Epps. Hy het 'n P14 waar hy die loop moet vervang en hy dink daaraan om dit te laat Epps. Die groot bekommernis is die dies vir herlaai. Epps dies is uiters skaars. Toe vra hy of 'n geweersmid nie 'n gewone 303Br die kan aanpas na 'n Epps toe nie. Ek dink ek weet die antwoord, maar dit het my steeds laat wonder. Sou 'n geweersmid 'n 303Br vol lengte resizing die kan sny na 'n Epps? Of selfs 'n necksizer aanpas vir 'n Epps?

Dit is moontlik, maar die staal is uitsonderlik hard. Dit vat baie tyd en duur toerusting. Is dit dalk goedkoper om 'n nuwe stel in die VSA te bestel?

Dankie. Sal so deurgee.

My 243 Lee matrys is gesny na 243AI deur 'n kundige persoon. Ek het dit nog nie gebruik nie, maar Cobus Cobb het dit gebruik op sy 243AI met goeie resultate. Matrys moet saggemaak word deur dit te verhit, gesny met die ruimer en dan weer verhard word. Dit is dus baie soos 'n "bump die" wat nie die wande, maar slegs die skouer terugdruk.

My Lee 243 collet neck die werk nog 100% met die AI doppe, so moontlik sal dit ook met die Epps kan werk. Indien nie kan 'n waster gebruik word sodat slegs die boonste deel van die nek gevorm word. Dit sal verhoed dat dit die skouer raak.

Is daar 'n kans dat die matrys kan skeef trek wanneer hy weer verhard word?

Die moontlikheid is sekerlik daar. Die feit dat dit 'n kort stuk metaal is help seker om dit te verhoed. Die persoon wat dit gedoen het was 'n "tool and die maker" van beroep, met 'n belangstelling in vuurwapens. Hy het egter die kopspasie so effe lank gemaak en dit veroorsaak dat nie alle gekoopte patrone afgaan nie. Die hervormde doppe werk egter sonder probleme.

Ek het heelwat ackley kalibers en met elkeen vam hulle kom ek n standaard Lee collet neck die gebruik saam met n standaard Lee seater. Het iemand dit dalk al probeer? Probleem is net as die skouers moet terug gedruk raak...

Om die skouers terug te druk behoort 'n silinder met die regte grade skuinste bo die werk te kan doen. Dit behoort redelik maklik te wees om op 'n draaibank te sny.

Google Nezar Engineering. Custom dies volgens spesifikasie.