Hello Almal,
Ek woon in die Kaap en hou van voel end wild jag. Ek jag voels rondom die Kaap en trek Oos Kaap toe vir wild. Gunstelinge geweere is my Brno .308, Howa .243 en Miroku 12g haelgeweer. Ek herlaai ook self vir die laaste 12 jaar.
Grant
Intro
Moderator: Global Moderator
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PeterM
- Newbie
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:11 pm
Re: Intro
Hi I am probably only going to make one post because I have spent many years trying to get what seems impossible across. I'm tired of arguing with idiots who are determined to lose or so frightened and cowardly they are paralysed and simply reject anything and everything they don't like. I'm not diplomatic.
I started in the "good old days" as a firearm owner who was not happy with the way firearm laws were going and the total disinterest firearm organisations had in members lives safety and future. Seeing themselves as sporting facilitator only. This included SAGA that had pretty much an NRA use governments court to fight government approach. As the NRA is only a firearm safety training organisation it takes no interest in citizen right to life, property, freedom and the right to secure those rights. Not a good model to mislead members with. All the was at the time was message boards and email groups. The Gunners Forum started by Date Towert as a university project can to and end. Alex Holmes then very active in the firearms trade set up the South African Firearms Forum as a replacement of with I was the moderator. Membership grew to about 600. The guts of think tank of SAFF followed very much what Alex and myself had started discussions on the gunners forum of how does one win against gun control and its tool government. It may not seem obvious but if you don't know what you want to do how are you going to do what is needed to win? There is absolutely no point in heading in different directions doing things you hope will help. How will you measure success? That's how firearm owners operate on that sounds like a good idea type principle and it must follow what has been done before and failed thinking it's a new idea. SAFF generated a group that wanted to do something meaningful using these ideas and developing strategy based on winning, That was SALGO and very select group of about 27 in total who saw that only a new national organisation with its only mandate of winning was needed. GOSA was started entirely as the efforts of SALGO members who got together in Capetown and over a long weekend thrashed out the beginning of GOSA.
Here we had an organisation that had nothing to offer but winning with the Firearms Control Act a very real threat. Members should have poured in but who wants to win by making an effort? Who trusts a new organisation with no track record? Who trusts an organisation that wants people to help themselves as it is their life, their safety, their property and their freedom depended on it? Why when SAGA will do it for us. Saga is going to fight government in governments court and win. The other firearm organisation took absolutely no interest at all. Not their problem, some will still be able to shoot and hunt. All that happened was the legal process was followed and with extensive coverage of news, groups clubs, meeting, newspapers, radio, TV people made submissions on the bill. Unknown exact amount, tables piled high said to be 2000, the highest ever recorded.. The SAPS took one look and said we will call for submissions again after making a few minor changes. About 270 times it was amended. GOSA tried to promote the public view the FCA must be rejected entirely. It only had limited success because every firearm organisation would not help, many had been willing to sell out others for favours and relief for restrictions. We can make the best of it we can..... This simply cannot happen again. Appeasement and collaboration cannot win. Get that burnt into your brains. You my have to negotiate but you never give a thing away for no return and some not being disarmed is not one of them.
The rest is history and as a firearm owner, moderator of SAFF, owner of SALGO, founder member of GOSA
and the media officer of BGOSA, the only person banned from gunsite for doing nothing but correct a SAGA committee member selling out firearm owners I ask what are firearm owners willing to do to win? If you are not interested in winning then I am wasting my time and I can assure you nobody you have seen or heard knowns how. Those that did have forgotten or think it to difficult.
What tools and knowledge do firearm owners need to win? Where does one start if you want to win. What are the essentials, the absolute must know, must have and must do needed. I'm not asking for interventions.
I am willing to give my time, knowledge and experience of 40 years of studying this problem. I'm not willing to tell anyone how. They know better and I'm not willing to argue with peope who don't. I will say if it has been tried before probably best to toss it look at the results. Telling people they are wrong is counter productive because they will not change not even to save their life, family or loved ones.
Know what you are doing and what is needed to win is needed. Start there, Know yourself and what you are fighting. Objectives, strategy, planning implementation.
What are you fighting? How are the opposition winning? What can firearm owners do to attack that, impede it, prevent it? What is needed, what can be done. How is success measured? How does one keep winning. How does the organisation grow. How does the opposition do this?
I would guess the +30 pages on gunsite are an indication of doing it wrong. No I've not read them all or even a tenth. Don't need that now it is irrelevant.
I don't mind I'm just making the offer. Your choice. I'm to old to care any more.
Sun Tzu put it this way
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
A google search of "how to fight gun control" will give you less than 20 results. None will really help you. One may be a start.
Without quotes you will get 152,000,000 Gun control is not shy about helping people promote and demand gun control. Why is that? What is wrong? Why is it wrong, what would be right?
I started in the "good old days" as a firearm owner who was not happy with the way firearm laws were going and the total disinterest firearm organisations had in members lives safety and future. Seeing themselves as sporting facilitator only. This included SAGA that had pretty much an NRA use governments court to fight government approach. As the NRA is only a firearm safety training organisation it takes no interest in citizen right to life, property, freedom and the right to secure those rights. Not a good model to mislead members with. All the was at the time was message boards and email groups. The Gunners Forum started by Date Towert as a university project can to and end. Alex Holmes then very active in the firearms trade set up the South African Firearms Forum as a replacement of with I was the moderator. Membership grew to about 600. The guts of think tank of SAFF followed very much what Alex and myself had started discussions on the gunners forum of how does one win against gun control and its tool government. It may not seem obvious but if you don't know what you want to do how are you going to do what is needed to win? There is absolutely no point in heading in different directions doing things you hope will help. How will you measure success? That's how firearm owners operate on that sounds like a good idea type principle and it must follow what has been done before and failed thinking it's a new idea. SAFF generated a group that wanted to do something meaningful using these ideas and developing strategy based on winning, That was SALGO and very select group of about 27 in total who saw that only a new national organisation with its only mandate of winning was needed. GOSA was started entirely as the efforts of SALGO members who got together in Capetown and over a long weekend thrashed out the beginning of GOSA.
Here we had an organisation that had nothing to offer but winning with the Firearms Control Act a very real threat. Members should have poured in but who wants to win by making an effort? Who trusts a new organisation with no track record? Who trusts an organisation that wants people to help themselves as it is their life, their safety, their property and their freedom depended on it? Why when SAGA will do it for us. Saga is going to fight government in governments court and win. The other firearm organisation took absolutely no interest at all. Not their problem, some will still be able to shoot and hunt. All that happened was the legal process was followed and with extensive coverage of news, groups clubs, meeting, newspapers, radio, TV people made submissions on the bill. Unknown exact amount, tables piled high said to be 2000, the highest ever recorded.. The SAPS took one look and said we will call for submissions again after making a few minor changes. About 270 times it was amended. GOSA tried to promote the public view the FCA must be rejected entirely. It only had limited success because every firearm organisation would not help, many had been willing to sell out others for favours and relief for restrictions. We can make the best of it we can..... This simply cannot happen again. Appeasement and collaboration cannot win. Get that burnt into your brains. You my have to negotiate but you never give a thing away for no return and some not being disarmed is not one of them.
The rest is history and as a firearm owner, moderator of SAFF, owner of SALGO, founder member of GOSA
and the media officer of BGOSA, the only person banned from gunsite for doing nothing but correct a SAGA committee member selling out firearm owners I ask what are firearm owners willing to do to win? If you are not interested in winning then I am wasting my time and I can assure you nobody you have seen or heard knowns how. Those that did have forgotten or think it to difficult.
What tools and knowledge do firearm owners need to win? Where does one start if you want to win. What are the essentials, the absolute must know, must have and must do needed. I'm not asking for interventions.
I am willing to give my time, knowledge and experience of 40 years of studying this problem. I'm not willing to tell anyone how. They know better and I'm not willing to argue with peope who don't. I will say if it has been tried before probably best to toss it look at the results. Telling people they are wrong is counter productive because they will not change not even to save their life, family or loved ones.
Know what you are doing and what is needed to win is needed. Start there, Know yourself and what you are fighting. Objectives, strategy, planning implementation.
What are you fighting? How are the opposition winning? What can firearm owners do to attack that, impede it, prevent it? What is needed, what can be done. How is success measured? How does one keep winning. How does the organisation grow. How does the opposition do this?
I would guess the +30 pages on gunsite are an indication of doing it wrong. No I've not read them all or even a tenth. Don't need that now it is irrelevant.
I don't mind I'm just making the offer. Your choice. I'm to old to care any more.
Sun Tzu put it this way
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
A google search of "how to fight gun control" will give you less than 20 results. None will really help you. One may be a start.
Without quotes you will get 152,000,000 Gun control is not shy about helping people promote and demand gun control. Why is that? What is wrong? Why is it wrong, what would be right?
