PROBLEEMDIER FORUM

[LMB]

Heinrich,

Dankie vir jou uitnodiging na jul forum, dit lyk baie georden en positief. Geluk!
Ek hoop julle kan al die betrokkenes bymekaar kry in die forum, soos Petrus de Wet, Voorsitter van die Nasionale Probleemdierforum van SA, Thys de Wet, en al die ander  wat weet hoe om probleemdiere te beheer, asook die wat dink hulle weet hoe!

Groete
Lukas.

[jaracal]

Lukas
Baie welkom en dankie vir die aansluit. Ek sal dankbaar wees as jy die kontak besonderhede van die persone genoem vir my kan e-pos as jy dit het en dan kan ek vir hulle uitnodigings stuur. Dit sal ook waardeer word as jy die "link" kan aanstuur aan almal wat jy dink of weet wat sal belangstel.

Dankie byvoorbaat

Hein

[LMB]

Heinrich

Wat is jul doel, in kort, met die forum?
Ek sal kyk wat ek kan doen rondom die epos adresse.

Groete
Lukas

[jaracal]

Die doel is in kort om inligting uit te ruil. Dit kan gaan oor enige onderwerp. Enige persoon wat iets wil weet kan kom vrae vra en 'n ander persoon wat die kennis het (nie noodwendig die moderators van die forum nie) kan uithelp. Dit hoef nie noodwendig oor jag te wees nie maar kan enige onderwerp wees, dit is hoekom daar 'n algemene afdeling is. Hier kan ook soos nou met CapeNature se besluit mense hulle mening lig, in die openbaar. Tweedens kan data soos skades (landerye, vee, ens) op die databasis vasgele word. Daar kan ook 'n meningsopname gehou word oor besluite van regeringskant deur middel van die "poll" sisteem. Om saak te maak moet daar egter eers 'n hele paar lede wees. Ten derde is dit 'n plek vir mense met die selfde belangstelling (in hierdie geval jag in die bree) wat hulle stories en ondervindings hier kan kom deel. Partykeer wil 'n ou graag 'n kort ondervinding deel maar wil nie al die dinge deurgaan soos om aan 'n tydskrif te skryf nie, hier doen hy dit vinnig en is dit dadelik beskikbaar vir almal om te sien. Goeie diens kan geprys word en swak diens kan aangespreek word en die geleentheid is altyd daar vir die persoon/besigheid wat van swak diens beskuldig word sy kant van die storie te stel.
Nuwe produkte/uitvindings kan bekend gestel word. Stelsels/maniere/metodes van byvoorbeeld veeverlies voorkomings wat nie werk nie kan hier gerapporteer word.

Ek hoop ek het dit goed verduidelik. Dit is alles maklik, vinnig en gratis.

Groete

Heinrich

[Kruger]

Lucas, indien jy die Lucas Botes is wat my gesteun het op die PE website teen Bool en sy trawante, baie dankie. Ek het drie keer probeer om te antwoord op sy stellings en bewerings, maar dit is tot op hede nognie geplaas nie. Dalk hou hulle nie van die waarheid nie. Nogmaals dankie. Kruger

[Kruger]

Ek is reeds geruime tyd in bespreking met van ons groener vriende op http://www.portelizabeth.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=714&Itemid=289&joscclean=1&comment_id=752

My laaste antwoord word nie daar geplaas nie want ek dink nie dit is wat hulle graag wil hoor nie. Ek plaas dit dan maar hier. Ongelukkig is dit in die koning se taal en ek gaan dit beslis nie alles weer oorskryf nie, so vergewe maar.
Groete Kruger

Hier volg my ongeplaasde antwoord:
Bool, just as you can make my experiences, observations and knowledge off as incorrect and yours as facts I can doubt yours. Those ?facts? that you refer to, how were they derived at? Who did the experiments, observations and or studies. What was the raw information obtained and how was it interpretated to get to your so called ?facts?. One of your claims is that once you start killing jackal their litter sizes increase. How was that determined? How can you without a doubt say that the increase in litter size can be attributed to killing of jackal? What about maturity of the jackals observed(younger bitches normally have smaller litters, irrespective of other factors), food supply, etc. How did you prove beyond any doubt that it was actually caused by killing and not one of the many other variables that contribute to litter sizes??
I had three Anatolians myself. I know at least 7 more farmers in the area owning in excess of 30 dogs together. That is the sum total of Anatolians in the entire district. All of them complain about the same thing, so in the entire district, according to you, there is not a single ?trained? Anatolian. I was one of the first to try Anatolians, but due to the damage they caused to my wildlife, I feel they do more bad than good. I received training literature when I purchased my dogs, did a lot of research on the internet and trained them accordingly. I am not a novice when it comes to dog training. I am a registered breeder of sheepdogs (Australian kelpies) and train my dogs myself, so I understand a dogs? ways. What infuriates me is that you as well as Stef make assumptions of me personally and regard that as fact. Re-read the sections above and you will see I was told I was not willing to do research, have factual inaccuracies, lack knowledge, have suspect experience, driven by profit, etc. None of you know me, on which grounds can these assumptions be made and reflected here as fact? Were your other ?facts? obtained in the same way?
Just as you probably have, I have also made a study of this situation. Just as you are an educated and intelligent person, so am I. Why are only your findings regarded as fact and mine are dismissed without any factual proof as incorrect. I described why I say protective collars are not effective. Also have I said why I have a problem with Anatolians. I said to you on various occasions that jackal numbers are way out of control. Why do you refuse to accept that as the core of the problem? Have your studies indicated that they are not overpopulated, and if so, where were those studies done? You do not even know where I farm, so why do you dismiss the root of the problem as pointed out in my area if you do not even know where I farm. You were not able to verify, nor were you interested to test my findings. Instead you totally disregard them and focus on your own ideas.
Why are elephant culled in national parks? It is to restore the imbalance created by man. (btw, any and every human activity causes an imbalance, whether that be mushroom farming, vegetable farming, fruit farming, cattle farming, sheep farming or simply building a house, but these activities are essential because there is a world population that requires food and shelter) Lack of control of jackal numbers is exactly the same. They have no natural enemies in sheep farming areas and breed uncontrolled, therefore they have become a problem. None of your control methods address this problem. They have even become a problem in some of our national parks, whether you are aware of that or not.  In the Karoo section of Addo elephant national park they have had to supplement their springbok population on various occasions. Do you know why? Contact them and find out if they will only be willing to tell you the real reason. I know the real reason as I personally know some of the personnel working in that area. I know what their findings are. I say again jackal numbers are out of control and that imbalance will have to be corrected.
This is off the subject, but ties in with the bigger picture. You must have noticed that vervet monkeys have also had a population explosion. You see thousands of them all over and that is not good either. They too will have to be controlled because they are decimating our birdlife. Areas that had huge flocks of guineyfowl for instance (my farm included) have hardly any left.
I have said it in my previous responses and I will say it again. Some of the ?green? methods work to an extent under normal conditions, but once jackal numbers are out of control they are totally ineffective. I therefore do not doubt your claims that they were effective elsewhere. What I do say is that even in those areas jackal are still allowed to breed uninterrupted and within a few years they will also be totally overpopulated unless lethally controlled and when overpopulated those methods will also prove ineffective there.
You reject data that I have offered due to the fact that it was obtained in the 1980?s. This study was done on the effectiveness of jackal in killing their natural prey, in other words in how many of their attempts in catching a hare or rabbit they were successful. According to you this information is outdated and incorrect. Jackal have been hunting those prey animals for thousands of years. Their skills, methods and instincts were accumulated over centuries and at a point during the 1980?s when that study was done, that was their success rate. You say the information is outdated. Do you therefore say that they have learned to hunt during the last 20 years since that study was done, more than they were able to learn over the preceding thousands of years? Where is this newer information you refer to, who did the research, where was it done and how was it done?
I quote:? tell me that your ?lethal force? is not working very well.? Well Bool, previous generations have proved it to be effective, but due to various reasons, your ?green? alternatives included, it is a less used method today. Since I started to use that method three years ago I can make a living, which was impossible before that time. Do you know what it cost to support a ?normal jackal population? of say 3 pairs on a farm of say 7500ha? You will probably argue that the offspring will not stay in the same area and will move into open areas. The problem is there are no open areas left and the result is that territories become smaller. It is an excepted view that the territorial area of a pair of jackal is around 2500ha. Well I have proof of three pairs of jackal that had dens in an area smaller than 1400ha during the past breeding cycle.  Presumably it is your job to protect them, but it is my job to produce lambs. Protect them in the areas allocated for nature conservation and I will produce lambs in the area allocated for that purpose.  The two just don?t work together.
Why are certain principles only applicable on certain species? What would happen if Kruger parks? elephant are allowed to expand their territory all over South Africa once their numbers exceed the capacity of Kruger alone? That is the reason why there are control measures to keep their numbers within the capacity. Why can the same principle not be applied to jackal, but instead their areas must now include farming areas and I am not allowed or assisted to control their numbers on my own farm. This is not a sustainable solution. Their numbers are out of control and they will have to be reduced.
I feel you need to do research on the economic viability of enforcing your ?green? alternatives onto farmers. If we continue along these lines there will be no sheep or sheep farmers left within a few years. When that happens the jackal population will start to feed on their next alternative namely wildlife. After they have destroyed that resource too, you will probably have to keep bringing in more wildlife to support them like Addo is doing at the moment. It is simply not sustainable.
Do a study on the amount of jackal in South Africa, see what and how much they consume, make a projection of their numbers over five or ten years from now and compare that to the resources available to feed them. Publish that with full details on where, how and when the jackal counts were done on this website, once you have completed the study. I will gladly assist you in doing this.
In the meantime while this is being done I will refrain from shooting jackal. That will cost me between R200 000 and R300 000 in losses annually. At the end of every year we (you and me together) will publish a full inventory of losses that I had to jackal, while using your ?green? methods, and I then expect you to give a similar personal donation to nature conservation, with proof of deposits to this effect published on this website, as this is what you expect me to do.
It is easy for you or anybody else for that matter to make statements if it does not affect you personally. If you are so sure that your methods are effective you have nothing to fear, so put your money where your mouth is and take me up on this challenge. I will send you an email with my contact details (for your personal use) for the purpose of factual discussing of this problem, but I am not interested in an emotional discussion of whatever kind.

Hierdie antwoord op sy vorige stellings is reeds drie keer ingestuur na bogenoemde forum, maar is tot op hede nog nie geplaas nie. Dalk maak dit te seer. Raakskiet manne, Groete Kruger

[johan]

Kruger

Kolskoot,hierdie is die raakste skiet wat ek nog ooit teegekom het,met n geweer weet ek nie,maar met die pen kan jy raakskiet en seer ook!Doen so voort!


johan

[LMB]

Kruger
Ek was al vantevore op die webblad maar het nie jou reaksie raakgesien of dit was nog nie daar nie. In elk geval, mens kan nie meer stilbly nie. Saamstaan is al manier om die gogga te wen. Ek het nie gedink hulle gaan dit plaas nie, veral omdat ek in die verkeerde taal geskryf het. Die dr het mos ook ges? hy gaan nie verder met jou praat nie, jy kan hom direk kontak dan sal hy jou wys hoe dit entlik gedoen moet word.
Ek hoop van harte dat die manne betrokke sal raak by die hierdie forum, ons het hulle nodig en hulle ons, beide het iets om by mekaar te leer.
Terloops, waar boer jy, klink of jy my buurman kon gewees het. Alles wat jy ges? het is so van toepassing op ons ander se situasie, interesant dat mense van verskillende dele die probleem op dieselfde manier ervaar.

Groete
Lukas

[Kruger]

Ek boer in die Jansenville distrik. Addo park het baie uitgebrei in ons area en is grootliks verantwoordelik vir baie van die probleme. Die noordelike dele van die distrik word minder geraak, maar in die suid ooste (waar ek boer) gaan dit erg. Dit het 'n sneeubal effek tot gevolg, want soos wat mense moed verloor slaan hulle oor na wild, wat die probleem vererger. Wildboere word net so nadelig geraak as kleinvee boere, maar hulle het nie getalle op hulle aanteel soos 'n skaapboer nie, dus is die probleem nie so tasbaar nie. Ek hoop net dat hier iets positief uit die bespreking met hulle kom. Terloops ek sien vanoggend my antwoord is nou ook op hulle forum geplaas.
Dit was nooit my intensie om vyande te maak nie, maar dit is tyd dat ons die feite begin stel. Groete Kruger

[LMB]

Kruger
Ek boer op die Laingsburg, Prins Albert grens. Die Swartberg Natuur reservaat is weer ons grootste kopseer, onbetrokke kleinvee boere, en die wild boere, hulle is gewoontlik mense met geld so sy wins l? in sy waarde van sy grond en die warm geld wat hy kom wegsteek. Op die landbouweekblad internet forum het dit baie duidelik geword dat wildboere reg deur die land ook skade ly.

Ek is van opinie dat dit van onsself afhang of hier iets positief gaan uitkom. Ek glo almal wil die probleem op `n positiewe manier oplos tot alle diere se voordeel. So veel moontlik moet betrokke raak en as ons verkeerd is, wil ons dit bewys h?.
Ek dink nie mens kan enigiets anders aanvaar nie.

Die feit dat hul nou jou antwoord geplaas het is vir my `n bewys daarvan dat iemand begin agterkom het dat daar dalk meer in jou betoog is as om geld te maak, jou feite moet verkeerd bewys word, anders moet dit as die waarheid aanvaar word.

Groete
Lukas

[tafjak]

Kruger

KOOKWATER!!!! Jy issit.

Vriendelike groete

Taffie

[jaracal]

Kruger
Baie goed geskryf. Ek het die skrywes gelees op die ander website en moet jou se, mense wat nie boer nie kan nogal lekker ongevraagd raadgee. Jammer net mense maak hulle "minds op" oor 'n ding en min kan hulle daarvan afkry. Die persepsie rondom die suksesse van die herders honde sal een of ander tyd moet regkom. 'n verkeerde ding kan nie te lank reggepraat of weggesteek word nie. Hoe loop die ou hollandse spreekwoord, "al loop die leuen hoe snel, die waarheid haal hom in wel".

Bly om te sien jy kry al meer lammers.

seen vir julle

H

[Skillie]

So het ons almal dieselfde probleem. Nou voel ek nie meer so alleen nie. By ons het ons weer bosbou plantasies wat jakkalse gebruik om muise en rotte te beheer. Daar is nie beheer oor die jakkalse nie en soos hulle aanteel skuif hulle uit. Baie boere het al van skaap na bees boerdery verander, maar ek het noudiedag 'n foto gesien van 'n kalf wat deur 'n jakkals gevreet is.

Hou so aan manne, as ons saamstaan kan ons 'n verskil maak.
Skillie

[tafjak]

Johan

Wat praat jy van Kruger se skiet, ek se jou as jy dink hy kan 'n saak aanvat op papier moet jy sien as die ou hom in die veld aanvat. HY KAN!!!

Groete

Taffie

[jaracal]

Skillie
ek het 'n vriend wat in KZN jag, hy het vele ondervinding van jakkalse wat pas gebore kalwers vang. Ek sal hom vra om vir my 'n paar fotos te neem en te stuur. Die koeie wat kalf word in 'n ge-elektrifiseerde kamp gehou. Pakke van 10-12 jakkalse hardloop en jag saam. Die koeie word ook van agter gevreet en so verloor jy albei. Die jakkalse was nooit gejag nie, so eintlik moes daar amper geen jakkalse oorgewees het nie. Die geleerdes se mos los hulle en hulle sal minder teel. Ek het die eerste daarmee te doen gekry in Vryburg.

FS natuurbewaring, nou Omgewingssake, het bevestig dat hulle ook sulke gevalle ondersoek het, by name Robert Wilke. Ek sal hoor of hulle nie iets wil skryf oor die onderwerp met fotos nie. Dan kan die ouens sien ons praat nie twak of jaag spoke op nie.

Groete
H

[Caller]

Andag Aandag !!!

Onse administrator, die einste Hein het mos die nuutste Weg tydskrif gehaal kj?rels.

Ja wragtag daar is 'n artikel oor die Noordkaap se Baas Jakalsjagter (sogenaamd) en in die storie word na ou Hein verwys op twee plekke. Die man is mos wyd en syd bekend. Praat van 'n man met vonk. They don't call him Funk for nothing (askiestog BAAS Hein). Lees dit gerus.

Wil nou graag sien wat die greenies gaan s?, want hulle lees virseker die Weg en daar word in die artiekel gepraat van hoe die jakkals in die slagy - e - ek bedoel " leg holding device" met 'n kierrie doodgeslaan of met 'n klip doodgegooi word.

Caller

[JACQUES BOTHA]

MOOI SO DOCTER JACKALL     
ONS IS TROTS VAN JOU DR.

[johan]

Baie geluk DR JACK-CALL, oe voor ek vergeet en gee asb daai jack in die leg holding device nog n klip op die kop

johan

ns wat sien ek sopas,Hennerik is aanlyn,welkom Oom Silwerrug!! 

[Jaco Bezuidenhout]

Middag ouens

Ek wil graag by julle hoor vir hoeveel rand skiet julle,maw hoe bepaal jy jou rekening bd boer.Ek weet daar is baie faktore wat tel.Net min of meer n aanduiding asb.dankie

groete

Kkat

[jaracal]

Kieterkat
Baie faktore speel 'n rol soos hoe lank skiet jy, in watter area jag jy, hoeveel kliente het jy, hoeveel kompetisie het jy ens. Die meeste boere het maar 'n weerstand om baie te betaal. As jy te veel werk het is jy gewoonlik te goedkoop en as jy te min werk het is jy heel moontlik te duur. Die prys per jakkals wissel tussen 400-800 per dier. Die reiskoste beloop so tussen 2-50 tot 4-00 per km. Ek weet dit help moontlik nie veel nie maar begin liewer met 'n laer prys en werk op as wat jy jou bod hoog insit en dan sonder werk sit. Jy kan altyd jou prys verhoog, maar moet dit nie binne 6mnde doen nie.
Groete
H

[jaracal]

Andag Aandag !!!

Onse administrator, die einste Hein het mos die nuutste Weg tydskrif gehaal kj?rels.

Ja wragtag daar is 'n artikel oor die Noordkaap se Baas Jakalsjagter (sogenaamd) en in die storie word na ou Hein verwys op twee plekke.

Caller
Ek wil dit net uitklaar ek is NIE die ou op die foto nie.  
Groete
H

[JACQUES BOTHA]

EK DOG NET DIE DAG JAG DING HET JOU VREESLIK BLOOTSTELLING AAN OORMATIGE AANTAL ULTRAVIOLET STRALE GEGEE  EN DAARVANDAAN DIE  SUPER TAN.. EK WOU NOG VRA OF DAAI SELFTAN LOTION NIE PERMANENTE SKADE OF DONKER KOLLE AGTERLAAT NIE

[Freek]

[Caller]

Hein

Ek dink julle het my verkeerd verstaan. Die storie gaan nie oor jou nie, maar as jy die artikel lees dan word daar wel op twee plekke in die teks na jou
(jakkalsjagter van Phillipolis wat jakkalse met 'n CD nader roep en met 'n voertuig jag) verwys. Dana Snyman noem nie jou naam nie maar s? hy het al met jou gepraat en verwys na jou tegniek in teenstelling met die tegniek (slagyster) wat die ou in die teks, gebruik.

Hoe dit ook al sy, jy is aangehaal in die "Weg" man. Wees trots daarop. Lees gerus die artilkel.

Caller

[jaracal]

Caller
Ek het die stukkie eers geskryf nadat ek die artikel gesien het, nie na aanleiding wat jy gese het nie, dit was maak tong in die kies geskryf, niks te worry nie.
Groete
H